In her book Madeleine, Kate McCann accuses the Portuguese police of focusing their investigation on them [the parents] to the exclusion of all other options available. I am not sure that is true, because we all saw the scale of the Police search for Madeleine - the largest in Portugal’s history. So convincing was her ‘Roxanne Pallett’ account of the treatment she and her husband received at the hands of the Portuguese police, the entire British establishment and media stood behind her. Inherent racism, probably. And probably the first time the British Government has sided with suspects against the Judiciary of another nation.
But all that aside, Gerry and Kate have fought tooth and nail to ensure the British public, only gets to hear their side of what happened during the summer of 2007 in PDL. As yet, no publisher or media mogul has picked GA’s book and no newspaper has serialised it. It’s possible of course that the entire publishing industry is under some sort of ‘D’ notice with regard to publishing alternate theories to an abduction, or it could simply be, that the McCanns are so litigious, no-one can arsed.
There has been a subtle change, in that the MSM now refer to Madeleine’s disappearance rather than abduction, but they are still plugging Team McCann press releases and the idea that the McCanns were cleared when the original investigation was shelved. They weren’t, but it wasn’t until the Portuguese Supreme Court pointed it out, that it began to sink in with British journalists. I’ve just had a read of Tracey Kandhola’s latest article in The Mail. The English is of course appalling, she doesn’t know the difference between their and there, and claims The Fund’s sole objective is to find Madeleine, support the Family and bring the abductor to justice. That’s 3 objectives Tracey - do you not know what sole means? I normally ignore bad English, but she is getting paid for that crap.
All Gerry and Kate’s efforts to silence Goncalo Amaral, have proved futile. There are just too many forms of communication now, to keep bad stories out with borders. Anyone who looks beyond the tabloid headlines and the mind numbing gibberish of Lorraine Kelly, can see for themselves that there is lot more to Madeleine’s disappearance than has been made public.
The official line in the UK, is that Madeleine was abducted. However, equally compelling, are the findings of the original investigation and Goncalo Amaral. In his book, The Truth of the Lie, GA theorizes, based on the alerts of the dogs, that Madeleine died in the apartment and her parents hid her body. That is, he reaches the same conclusion as the original investigation.
The McCanns claimed the original investigation was flawed and the UK media have gone with that ever since. Gerry and Kate are innocent, the Portuguese police got it wrong. And that’s basically been the state of play ever since Operation Grange began their Review.
The other narrative, the theory of Goncalo Amaral however, has never gone away. No other pieces fit the very carefully aligned spaces in the jigsaw puzzle. A cover up has never been possible! It may be in the next couple of weeks we will hear the results of OG’s investigation. It has been too public, and publicly funded to be locked away in a vault with nothing said. The minimum I expect will be, ‘we have done as much as we can and are passing our files to the PJ, oh, and no further comment’. Then again there could be a major revelation, we can only wait and see.
We will not be commenting on not commenting.
ReplyDeleteWho are "we"?
DeleteVery small people who live in Scotland.
DeleteIt's still possible to report or discuss alternative theories apart from an abduction without accusing the parents or anyone else.If journalists can't figure that out, they're in the wrong job.If they can figure it out but have been told by their respective bosses to leave well alone, then their collective bosses must have a good reason to forego big profits.Or maybe they're acting on behalf somebody else with power.
ReplyDeleteIt's no use - or too late- to shut Amaral up now. His book has been circulating for years now, not weeks and the internet is heavily populated by those who need instructing what to think and who to follow.But it's still only a book when all is said and done. It isn't a police file. It isn't as though it has the power to make any changes other than in the minds of those needing a top up of anger. It's a pity he wasn't a prolific writer when he was contributing to the files of the case really.The Supreme Court permitted the publication of his unsupported claims in his book as it was nothing more than a literary work. In other words-it isn't a police file.The court stated it didn't mean the McCanns were cleared. Cleared of what ? They hadn't been arrested or charged.Only questioned.The police chief went on record saying they were not suspects.If we have to take the courts comment so literally, then Robert Murat was questioned twice as many times as a suspect- so he isn't cleared either.
The original investigation was flawed. Amaral said they made mistakes and so did some critics.But the key questions all come from the forensics investigation.The findings of the dogs ? Blood ? DNA? Cadaver ? Can all of them be wrong ? It's hard to swallow i suppose.But that's the official stance.And then there's the question of the shutting down of the FSS. Deeper digging points in the direction of the Rachel Nickel murder, the police honey trap and the catalogue of missed or mistaken DNA and other forensic clues. A catalogue of errors so large it beggars belief considering the supposed credentials of those working for the department. Tony Blair's government covered those up for a few years until it was leaked and he denied it.Blair- again.So who and what do we trust ? The Nickel case was solved later( too late for the subsequent victim not long after the murder).That was after the evidence was sent to an independent forensic lab.One with no agenda ? Strange.It's too hard to accept, in a normal world, that so many important people from Police to prime ministers and scientists would put so much on the line to protect two holiday makers.It's equally difficult to accept that the parents have so much over so many that they can command them to dance to their tune.That leaves the question of how it all came to be this way.How many hidden hands moved the pieces and why ?
Anonymous at 19:48
Delete(The court stated it didn't mean the McCanns were cleared. Cleared of what ?)
I think it is more nuanced than that.
The court stated the invocation of breach of the principle of presumption of innocence does not fall under the decision about the question that had to be resolved.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Supreme_Court_31_01_2017.htm#70
Interesting post nonetheless.
Nuanced indeed.Basically, the riddles wrapped up in the subtle grey areas stated that Amaral( who was the actual defendant) hadn't breached the presumption of innocence as it was a separate issue to that of breaching the libel laws and freedom of speech with his accusations or book.I'll add some more grey to it by stating that just because they're two separate issues or points of law, or even principle,the presumption of innocence still stands and is a basic human right in Europe.If they were /are two separate issues or points of law the judge had no need to talk about the status of the McCanns beyond the claim against Amaral and the libel case and subsequent judgement.Was she imprudent by complete accident ? The jury's out.
DeleteInteresting post 19:48, but I must pick you up on a couple of points. Robert Murat was questioned twice as many times. RM was co-operating with the police, The McCanns' weren't!
DeleteThat it's the 'official stance' that the dogs, blood, DNA, cadaver were WRONG is nonsense and wishful thinking on your part. There is no evidence to suggest that Operation Grange and the PJ have ruled out the evidence collected by the original investigation.
I actually remember the Rachel Nickel very well, I was a young mum myself at the time. Blair (and I'm no fan) had nothing to do with a cover up in that case and I think you have brought it in just to muddy the waters. There are no comparisons to be made.
As for the parents 'power', I think a lot of people were taken in by their claims of victimhood, and some were probably forced to do things they did not agree with by forces other than the McCanns, but any power the parents had is now gone. That is obvious by the way they look these days.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Supreme_Court_31_01_2017.htm#68
Delete(...)
"Nevertheless, the Court of Justice of the European Union has decided that the principle of presumption of innocence does not apply to subsequent civil proceedings (mainly compensatory) to criminal proceedings, at risk of depriving the victim of her own right to accede to the courts and to be compensated (Cf. the judgements in Y vs Norvvay (56568/00) of 11/ 5/2003 and Diacendo vs Italy (124/04) of 05/07/2012).
As Jónatas Machado points out, in "Freedom of Expression, Public Interest and Public Figures and Equalities", BFDUC, vol.LXXXV, 2009, p. 91, The presumption of innocence, because it's only a presumption, cannot overcome the search for the truth and the right of citizens to the truth. It cannot as well prevent public criticism and public scrutiny of the functioning of justice. The same happens, furthermore, with the attempt to demonstrate the innocence of a condemned person and thereby to move aside the mark of the conviction. The search for truth, including the truth about justice, has always been one of the main justifications of freedom of expression."
Thank you for that 10:14. My old legal secretary skills are failing, as I'm struggling with the first paragraph.
DeleteThe quote from Jonatas Machado however is much clearer. The presumption of innocence, because it's only a presumption, cannot overcome the search for the truth...…..'.
The McCanns and their supporters have clung onto this presumption of innocence as if it were a life raft. It is the basis of all their claims of victimhood. And probably the reason why the received such huge awards in the Royal Courts of Justice.
The McCanns and their supporters object to discussion groups such as mine, because we do not observe the McCanns' right to be presumed innocent. What we are doing is not illegal (Freedom of Expression, search for the truth, etc), but the McCanns would very much like it to be.
If they had decent lawyers, they would have told them years ago that trying to silence public criticism and block public scrutiny, was the equivalent of putting Madeleine's search money on a bonfire. But with their triple figure hourly rates, it was a guaranteed contract until the money ran out.
Anyway, thank you for confirming there are no laws that prevent public scrutiny and the search for the truth.
@ Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton24 September 2018 at 09:45
Delete''As for the parents 'power', I think a lot of people were taken in by their claims of victimhood, and some were probably forced to do things they did not agree with by forces other than the McCanns, but any power the parents had is now gone. That is obvious by the way they look these days.''
Speculative effort.How they look ? Are we in the land of body language and facial reading again ? What does strain 'look' like....
I think a lot of people ( who ?) would be taken in by any parents claiming that their child had been abducted.Especially if those parents explained that they'd left her unattended by any resposible adult and it was abroad on holiday.Why would anyone disbelieve ?We've seen several interviews and statements on TV news programmes and yes, more than once it turns out that those making the tearful pleas for help had actually been responsible for the disappearance themselves.But not all of them can fit into that category. Trained police are supposed to be a little more qualified and have more insight than the TV audience when it comes to discerning genuine grief and shock from bullshit.How can they be taken in so easily ?But the public have decided to hijack the McCann case and take it on line and be the policemen, prosecution counsel and judge. Thank God it's only in their little matrix. There, the court decides ahead of the trial who's guilty, who's saintly, and that evidence doesn't matter.Opinion is all.Personal dislikes take precedence over cold logic and objectivity.
Back in the heady days of 2007/8/9/10, the police had an abundance of files, the 'testimony' of dogs( that don't lie) and traces of DNA and blood and the scent of a corpse.Yet this mesmeric 'power' that the McCanns seemingly posess caused the authorities to dismiss it all.You and others can say it's ridiculous to say that it was dismissed but it was.They've been spending millions reviewing the case over years but they haven't re-investigated the evidence ?Why not ? The same mesmeric power entranced PMs and MI5. Everyone was turned into a zombie and the McCanns sailed on.DNA testing has continued to evolve in the last 20 years, including post-PDL. Yet nobody is testing it.Amaral insinuated that it had been mysteriously tampered with in transit to cover up the evidence against his suspects.Who would do that and why would they want to protect the guilty of such a crime or crimes ?
Again, you are trying to pitch the idea that the evidence collected by the original investigation has been discarded. I remember the Portuguese police chief (who's name I cannot now remember, doh)saying they had no need to go over the original investigation.
DeleteThe need to revisit the original investigation would have been paramount if it's findings were flawed. It is the first thing the PJ and OG would have done, especially if they disputed the evidence found (by GA and his team).
You say trained police are able to spot suspicious behaviour. I'm sure they are, and can, that's why they let suspects speak as much as they want on camera. The suspects are blissfully unaware or being deliberately provocative, if they think they are out of range of 'everything you say can and will be used against you'. Gerry and Kate have left themselves unbelievably vulnerable with their many interviews. They could be used as an example of how comfortable or uncomfortable they are with lying.
Most of the McCann supporters on here scorn the use of body language and forensic linguistics to determine whether someone is lying. With this, as with art, culture, politics, etc, they are at least a century behind the rest of us. How closely do they think the police watched the Philpotts when they made a public appeal? Ditto Karen Matthews who was too simple to understand that the world could plainly see her duping delight. For the police, who may not be getting any co-operation from Gerry and Kate, it is better for them if Gerry and Kate talk away [to the public].
It has taken a long while, but it has now finally sunk in with Team McCann. I have always suspected that they have used sources, pals, Clarence etc, to speak on their behalf so they don't incriminate themselves. It began as early at the night of 3rd May, when friends and family informed the world that the apartment had been broken into (it hadn't) and no-one was helping them (they were).
It is only you who think the McCanns have some sort of mesmeric power, I doubt anyone else does. If it does exist, why didn't they bring a halt to OG years ago?
Finally you say 'nobody is testing it [the DNA etc]. How could you possibly know that? Are you privy to information that isn't available to ANYone else? OG, like the PJ, have kept their cards very close to their chests. Beyond the ludicrous burglar theory, they have given nothing away. I suspect they are all, witnesses included, operating under Portuguese judicial secrecy laws.
The McCanns once had power 13:06, when their abduction story was major news and Madeleine's disappearance fitted a lot of agendas. New Labour at the time were floating the idea of Identity Cards and a DNA database. I'm sure those topics will come around again, but the 'perfect storm' that existed in 2007 is unlikely to happen again.
''The need to revisit the original investigation would have been paramount if it's findings were flawed. It is the first thing the PJ and OG would have done, ''
DeleteAnd it's been 'reviewed' for how many years now ?
''Gerry and Kate have left themselves unbelievably vulnerable with their many interviews. They could be used as an example of how comfortable or uncomfortable they are with lying. ''
If the expert police consider that they're lying then yes, they could be.But they haven't been in all these years have they.Apart from oddballs trying to be famous on youtube.
'' How closely do they think the police watched the Philpotts when they made a public appeal?''
You didn't need to be an expert for that nonsense.Stevie Wonder could have spotted that acting.
''It has taken a long while, but it has now finally sunk in with Team McCann. I have always suspected that they have used sources, pals, Clarence etc, to speak on their behalf so they don't incriminate themselves''
And yet Clarence was drafted in really early before most of the interviews.It was of paramount importance that he left an important position in Whitehall to guard every word that went public about this 'police matter'.
''It is only you who think the McCanns have some sort of mesmeric power, I doubt anyone else does. If it does exist, why didn't they bring a halt to OG years ago?''
The mesmeric power was sarcasm. I've questioned recently- and am now-what power could the McCanns possibly have over so many important people that said important people moved( or hid) mountains to protect them from arrest for killing a child.
''Finally you say 'nobody is testing it [the DNA etc]. How could you possibly know that? Are you privy to information that isn't available to ANYone else? OG, like the PJ, have kept their cards very close to their chests''
Fair question. I'm assuming that A- nobody is testing it as non of the 'names' have been arrested' B- they may have tested it and found DNA / Blood from someone unknown( none of the 'names' C- If they've done either A or B the cards they're holding to their chests are the cards that say 'suspect unknown'. What leads me to this way of thinking is the 11 years of nothingness and the new plea for more money.You don't test for DNA and blood you've had in the freezer for 11 years using money.
''The McCanns once had power 13:06, when their abduction story was major news and Madeleine's disappearance fitted a lot of agendas''
I think you're confusing power and support. It doesn't matter what the majority of the public feel or think.It only matters what the investigation thinks.If they think anyone's guilty they should arrest them.If they have evidence they should use it; if the circumstantial evidence is strong, they should use that. The DNA and ID concepts were floating around before the McCanns were even married, let alone when Madeleine went missing.
Look forward to the next exciting interesting comments on Ros's blog.
ReplyDeleteSewing, sharing scrambled egg (darlheeeen), will it be coffee or some Darjeeling tea and biscuits or maybe a few kippers thrown in for good measure. I am sure that "T" "call me lolita will be along any time soon to set the tone.
Anonymous23 September 2018 at 22:27
DeleteThat reads like the shortest ever synopsis of The Bitter Tea Of General yen.I suggest an extra sugar in future, or maybe a sweetener or two.I'm sure my comrade is of similar mind.Now, either open your mind or close the door as you leave.There's a good
Hi Rosalinda,
ReplyDeleteI don't want to speak ill of the dead or spoof dead people. But in the minds of the McCann family their daughter is very much alive.
If this is the case, could not the about-to-be-terminated investigative team of British detectives have come up with this final result.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
"Scotland Yard has a special announcement to make:
We regret to announce we have terminated "Operation Grange."
In co-operation with Doctors Kate and Gerry McCann we have reached a conclusion after many years of intensive investigation into the disappearance of their daughter.
We find the girl Madeleine McCann was abducted by persons unknown.
The unimpeachable evidence given to our team of detectives by the parents of the child leaves us with no alternative but to believe the mother's statement on the night of her child's abduction as she rushed out on the streets of Praia da Luz screaming "she's been taken".
The extraordinary display by the two parents seen thrashing and crying on the floor "Like two Arabs" witnessed by two Portuguese policemen and the witness's statement of jemmied windows and also of a man carrying a child's body away seen by another very reliable witness reinforces our strong belief there is an abductor still on the loose.
Unfortunately "Scotland yard's resources for more investigation have run dry even with a final generous donation of 150,000 pounds from the Find Madeleine Fund. A multi million pound fund controlled by the parents and put to much good use.
We are of course disappointed to make this announcement at this time but would strongly urge people to keep donating to the "Find Madeleine Fund" by calling this number at: 1-800-+++-++++ where operators are on standby to take your calls in the language of your choice."
Could this be how it all ends.
jc
Hi JC, after years of speculation, we are left with more years of speculation - kill me now!
DeleteI don't think we will see a revival of the McCanns Fund and awareness campaigns. Kate has now shut up shop, quite literally, she is no longer sending out prayer cards and holiday packs. The demand for good quality wristbands and Madeleine belt badges and t-shirts is no longer there and donations have plummeted. Though people can still donate if they are daft enough.
They are presently floating the lie that Goncalo Amaral is threatening to take away their last £750k. All nonsense of course, it is they who are suing GA for compensation, not the other way round. Perhaps they think it will gain them sympathy and more public donations.
It is of course ridiculous that OG have to go cap in hand to the government for more funding to find Madeleine while her parents sit on £750k donated specifically for that purpose. If they believe Madeleine is alive, Scotland Yard is more equipped to do the searching than they are.
Your final analysis sounds a bit like a Jungian nightmare JC, spookily close to what we have seen this past 11+ years, and even a possibility. A tiny part of me however thinks the truth will win in the end.
Anonymous24 September 2018 at 04:29
Delete''I don't want to speak ill of the dead or spoof dead people. But in the minds of the McCann family their daughter is very much alive.''
That's not speaking ill of the dead.It's inferring ( as you don't need actual evidence or a source) that a child died and that it's parents are covering it up while pretending they don't know where she is.You say it in virtually every post you make. You're obsessed with the idea of that innocent little girl being dead somewhere.You're weird.Who pronounced her dead ? When did it become a murder investigation ? Can you let us know or hasn't that happened in real life ?
''Correct me if I'm wrong...
Delete"Scotland Yard has a special announcement to make:
We regret to announce we have terminated "Operation Grange."
OK, you're wrong. Just because the parents can't or won't believe that their child is dead doesn't mean the police should close the case.That would be stupid.
''We find the girl Madeleine McCann was abducted by persons unknown.The unimpeachable evidence given to our team of detectives by the parents of the child leaves us with no alternative but to believe the mother's statement ''
Another reason to keep OG open.To find an abductor.
'' the witness's statement of jemmied windows and also of a man carrying a child's body away seen by another very reliable witness reinforces our strong belief there is an abductor still on the loose.''
Which would mean they would keep the investigation alive-wouldn't it ?
'' keep donating to the "Find Madeleine Fund" ''
Even afte the case is closed ?
''Could this be how it all ends.''
Not in the real world, no. You should visit that one when you have the chance. The case will end cold.It will be sat upon a shelf, no doubt with a seal on it.Nothing new about those already questioned has been unearthed in eleven years so it won't be any time soon.Nobody is confessing and anyone doing a deathbed confession won't have credibility unless he gives specific details that can be verified and tell who else knew.I'm not sure if you were going for sarcasm or cynicism.Either way they missed the board.
Hello anon 23 September at 22:27
ReplyDelete"Look forward to the next exciting interesting comments on Ros's blog"
Like the interesting one you've just made?
@ 22:27
ReplyDeleteI actually enjoy the blog's running gag that Ziggy is a Scottish cross dresser with T as his butler.
And Ros of course as a Nurse Ratched keeping him in check.
Humour only really works when there is a grain of truth in 'Naffing Gnome'. Don't ever apply for a job at Central Casting, your profiles of Ziggy, T and myself, couldn't be further from reality.
DeleteI am a chilled out, free thinking libertarian, I am more like The Oracle (Matrix), I bake cookies and nurture, than stand by your beds Nurse Ratched. In my work life, on the rare occasions I was given authority, I would transfer proceedings to the nearest pub. And I was the original bad teacher. If I had a hangover I would make them (my students)watch a video. Though to be fair, the quickest way to learn about the Romantic Movement in the late 18th Century, is by watching the episode of Blackadder with Shelley and Byron!
The Naffing Gnome24 September 2018 at 09:08
DeleteThe running gag is only running in your own head.It's probably funny in there.Why would you imagine a complete stranger on line is a cross dresser of all things.Anything you'd like to share with the group ?We promise not to laugh( naturally)
12:21
DeleteThe clue is in the album you name your self after.
First track side 2 I believe, but you know that anyway.And yes I know it's about Marc Bolan actually (supposedly).
But the whole point is,if you dish it out on here,which you do,quite rudely at times,then you have to expect people to take the piss back.
The Naffing Gnome 24 September 2018 at 09:08
DeleteNow you see, Gnomy, how easy it is to be misunderstood. You should have indicated somehow that you were not talking cross-dressing. Actually, His Eminence likes watching me watching His Eminence watching me doing the dressing of the cross.
I hear ‘Thank you, comrade, for saving my hide.’ Not at all, son, not at all. Enjoy. (Remember you owes me fork handles)
Anonymous 24 September 2018 at 01:54
DeleteGetting pleasantly dizzy
On the fragrance of your words,
Your Sweet Grace, I surrender
To the gentle hands of your wisdom.
Lizzy Epigrammaticus Bite-Your-Nails,-Kermit
Just read Kate's message on the Find Madeleine website and I can't help but wonder what other commitments could possibly take priority over finding her own daughter.
ReplyDeleteNoah at 16:32
DeleteGood question. Apart from that, why is Kate's message suddenly newsworthy? It's a message from November 2017:
Unfortunately due to many commitments and pressures, I am unable at this time to attend to website orders. We greatly appreciate your support. Thank you to everyone who has kindly donated to Madeleine's Fund through our Online Store (donations can still be made via one of the methods below). Your support means a lot to us. Your kindness and generosity is no less appreciated however and continues to buoy us up. Thank you again.
~Kate
There is almost a childish naivete in Kate's perspective of the world around her. I imagine being a cossetted only child she has been protected from some of life's harsher realities.
DeleteMadeleine merchandise was always going to have a limited shelf life. I don't know how to put this gently, but people going off on their holidays do not want to be thinking about a missing child and the misery of her parents. And wristbands, no matter what their quality, are only popular for a short period of time.
Kate always thinks in terms of 'how does this affect me'. She is giving up the website orders 'due to many commitments and pressures', giving the impression that the 'warehouse' is still frantically busy and she just doesn't have the time.
Why can't she be honest? Why can't she say the demand simply isn't there anymore? That would have been more sympathetic than 'I haven't got the time'.
19 March 2008
ReplyDelete"A newspaper group is paying £550,000 to the parents of Madeleine McCann after it settled a libel case over reports of her disappearance.
Express Newspapers' titles, including the Daily Express, Daily Star and Sunday Express, are also printing front-page apologies.
They say they were wrong to suggest the couple, of Rothley, Leicestershire, were responsible for Madeleine's death.
The McCanns say the money will go to the Find Madeleine campaign."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/7303801.stm
----------
22 September 2018
'Mr Amaral said it will not be his fault if the McCanns run out of cash, insisting he has never taken any legal action against them.
He told news website Portugal Resident.com that the couple should explain “how much money they have spent on lawyers’ fees”.
He added: “These were thousands of pounds not spent on looking for their daughter.”
Last night a spokesman for the McCanns, from Rothley, Leics, declined to comment.'
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/731452/madeleine-mccann-missing-search-kate-gerry-goncalo-amaral-fund
When will Amaral be as free with his opinions regarding the bosses who took him off the case ? Or who, in his opinion, decided to have him removed and protect the parents ? How about expamding on his claim that MI5 know who did what to the case as well as the child ? Does he seriously think the case can be solved if MI5 unseal their files ? Forget the tit-for-tat bitching over cash and the vendetta against the parents- attack those who removed you, Mr Amaral, and tell us why you think you were.
Delete4 October, 2007
Deletehttp://portugalresident.com/police-chief-removed-from-madeleine-case
'Gonçalo Amaral, the police coordinator leading the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, was removed from his position in a move that was not totally unexpected. The decision was made by the national office of the PJ after he made several controversial statements on the Madeleine case earlier this week.
Amaral, who has headed the investigation since the early days and who was also the head of the Portimão Office of the Polícia Judiciária (PJ) was relieved of his duties by a direct order from Alípio Ribeiro, the national chief of the PJ. He confirmed the decision when leaving an international conference entitled War, Women and Rights, held on Tuesday afternoon in Lisbon. Questioned by the journalists, Ribeiro said: “I ordered the end of Gonçalo Amaral’s service in Portimão and it seems to me that the reason why I gave that order is obvious.”
Alípio Ribeiro refused to make any further comments on the case or accept allegations of political pressure. However, Portugal Justice Minister, Alberto Costa, also speaking on Tuesday, had to step in publicly to assure all parties that the relationship between the Portuguese and British police forces working on the Madeleine McCann case was still strong and of “beneficial co-operation”. Alberto Costa claimed that “it is important that all teams are focused on the investigation work and not on the comments” and was reacting to comments made by Gonçalo Amaral to a daily newspaper where he criticised British police action.
Gonçalo Amaral, who has said he thought his statements were being made “off the record”, had accused British police of “working exclusively on the information wanted by the McCanns and that suits them better.” He was commenting on reports in the British media on Monday about an anonymous email sent to the official website of Prince Charles.The email accused a former employee of the Ocean Club of being responsible for the abduction of Madeleine McCann in a revenge action to destroy the resort’s credibility. But the PJ investigator said this information “had no credibility for the Portuguese police” and therefore “it was completely excluded” from the investigation.
Gonçalo Amaral also said that by following the couple’s tips, the British investigators were continuously “forgetting the fact that they are prime suspects of their daughter’s death,” adding that the kidnapping scenario now being explored was nothing more than “another fact worked by the McCanns”.'
When will the McCanns be as free with their opinions regarding the British interference that wrecked the original investigation? Or Jim Gamble for taking Madeleine's disappearance down the paedophile route?
DeleteHow about OG's ongoing failure to produce a result? They are so laid back about the imminent closure of OG without any answers, I wonder if they are asleep?
Why do you spend so much time fretting about Goncalo Amaral 01:42? In McCann .v. Amaral, it is the McCanns who are the protagonists, they are the instigators of all the civil actions. Their stooges Kandhola et al, try to give the impression that GA is persecuting Kate and Gerry with law suits, not Kate and Gerry demanding financial compensation from the former detective. Goncalo Amaral has only defended himself and his right to publish his side of the story.
Clinging onto GA as the bad guy is just plain weird 11 years on - so much has happened in the intervening period. Gerry and Kate told their story 'Madeleine' and Goncalo Amaral told his, 'The Truth of the Lie', that should be it, end of.
Their unreasonable demand that only their side of the story should be publicly available, has rightly been kicked to the kerb. Why don't they get over it and focus on their missing daughter?
GA is right to ask how much of the Madeleine Fund has been spent on lawyers, that was not what most of the donors intended. That no-one donates to the Fund anymore should not surprise them.
''Why do you spend so much time fretting about Goncalo Amaral 01:42? In McCann .v. Amaral, it is the McCanns who are the protagonists, they are the instigators of all the civil actions''
DeleteWhy do you keep fretting about the civil action over defamation and libel when pressed about Amaral's refusal to come out and use his 'freedom of speech' regarding his removal from a case ( in which all he had were ideas he couldn't back up and accusations against the parents he - or any officers subsequently- didn't arrest ?) This is about the fate of a child, not the fate of a book.If someone feels they have been defamed, slandered or libelled, they are entitled to complain or pursue it.Especially if it's accusations of having murdered their own child.
''Clinging onto GA as the bad guy is just plain weird 11''
No-see above.Hero worshipping him is weird.
'' 'The Truth of the Lie', that should be it, end of.''
Are you suggesting that his former colleagues, his replacement, and all other PJ officers dismiss his book and it's guesswork ? Or that SY have ? If it's the 'truth..end of'' then what' have they been doing ignoring it's validity all these years ?
''Their unreasonable demand that only their side of the story should be publicly available, has rightly been kicked to the kerb. Why don't they get over it and focus on their missing daughter?''
Questioning Amaral's dismissal and the lack of progress made by the joint investigation, and questioning why Amaral's more concerned about what the McCanns do with their money rather than why he was removed, is all connected to the disgraceful lack of progress made in finding that missing daughter.It doesn't matter whether money is drawn form the fund or if it's Government funding.Nobody believes the game any more. It's Abduction Vs Parents and has been for 11 years.Only the police and, in particular, Amaral can prove the abduction theory is fake and the parents are lying.If Amaral has the magic formula and solutions in his book why isn't it all done and dusted ?If he says it's because MI5 have sealed their file-why won't he elaborate ? Or is throwing accusations around his 'thing' ? If MI5 have done it - why, if it's a police matter and not a political one? If it's a political one, what do two doctors have to do with politics or the security of the UK ?It's too easy(and lazy)two ignore the bigger questions and bigger targets and stick to pointing at the parents.That's why those who do it only have credibility within their own circles.
Anonymous25 September 2018 at 10:53
Delete''The decision was made by the national office of the PJ after he made several controversial statements on the Madeleine case earlier this week....Ribeiro said: “I ordered the end of Gonçalo Amaral’s service in Portimão and it seems to me that the reason why I gave that order is obvious.”
There you go. Good call 10:53...
You can't get a much firmer vote of no confidence than that. What were you saying, Ros ? Oh yes - '' Goncalo Amaral told his, 'The Truth of the Lie', that should be it, end of. ''
Ros versus Ribeiro.Close call.
''Gonçalo Amaral, who has said he thought his statements were being made “off the record”,
Mister Integrity, himself.
''Gonçalo Amaral also said that by following the couple’s tips, the British investigators were continuously “forgetting the fact that they are prime suspects of their daughter’s death,” adding that the kidnapping scenario now being explored was nothing more than “another fact worked by the McCanns”.'
And yet :
''Deputy director of the Portugal's judicial police Pedro do Carmo :'''But what I can say, just as I did back in 2011 and 2013, is that Maddie's parents are not suspects. That statement remains: the parents are not suspects. Full stop.''
Ros and Co versus Pedro do Carmo. Another close call. No wonder Amaral was shifted.Loose lips etc.
You are obviously from school of thought that believes words are carved in stone, irrespective of the shifting sands of time.
DeleteYou can repeat the words of Pedro do Carmo, who I thought was a very intelligent and reasonable man, as much as you like (and you have 15:29), but in this case actions are speaking much louder than words.
Or maybe that should be lack of action, because no moves have ever been made on any lone predators or paedophile gangs. And yet still the investigation drags on, why is that I wonder?
Scotland Yard flew out to Portugal to conduct a thorough ground search of the areas around Apartment 5A. Scotland Yard keep requesting further funds for a reason, and it must have been a good reason for those funds to have been granted.
This idea planted by Team McCann that Operation Grange are a team of detectives sitting around saying to each other 'well it beats me' with occasional trips to sunny PDL.
It not only sounds ridiculous it is ridiculous. Police are public servants, they are accountable. Then there is the question of why are Scotland Yard even involved in a Portuguese investigation? If there were not British suspects, there would be no need for them.
As we know the Portuguese conduct their investigations under judicial secrecy. Pedro do Carmo may have said that Maddie's parents are not suspect. Full stop. But there are many valid reasons for him to have said that. Can you imagine for example, the speculation had he not said that and put a full stop on the end of it? How would journalists behave if they got a sniff of a big story about to break? It would the summer of 2007 all of again. There is no doubt that the original investigation was hindered by the publicity circus that surrounded Madeleine's disappearance.
Why should Goncalo Amaral come out now to complain about his removal from the case. It was over 11 years ago! You keep trying to draw GA into your spats, while it is quite obvious, he is not interested. The claim by Tracy Kandhola that GA was trying to prise the remaining £750k from Madeleine's Fund, was pure fiction and another attempt to make the parents look heroic, and the former detective look like a rogue. I'm glad he cleared that up.
DeleteThat you are using my blog to ask GA questions you couldn't think of during the libel trials is a tad pathetic. We have all moved on, why can't you?
Hero Worship. Seriously? Too playground to deserve a reply.
There is nothing to suggest the PJ or OG have ignored GA's book. I'm pretty sure they all have, Kate's 'Madeleine' too. They have also read the original PJ files, quite closely I would imagine.
'...lack of progress made in finding THAT missing daughter'. Is that you Gerry?
Err, no-one is ignoring the bigger questions. They are discussed on this very forum, regularly. None put forward by McCann supporters however, have knocked GA's theory off the top spot. Others, such as why isn't GA blaming those who fired him (12 years on), are too tedious for comment. The McCanns use GA like Trump uses Hilary Clinton.
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton25 September 2018 at 15:52
Delete''You are obviously from school of thought that believes words are carved in stone, irrespective of the shifting sands of time''
It's called the school of common sense.If those sands haven't shifted in 11 years, guess what those sands have turned in to..
''You can repeat the words of Pedro do Carmo, who I thought was a very intelligent and reasonable man, as much as you like (and you have 15:29), but in this case actions are speaking much louder than words.''
Feel free to describe an action that's speaking louder than words please.
''This idea planted by Team McCann that Operation Grange are a team of detectives sitting around saying to each other 'well it beats me' with occasional trips to sunny PDL.''
Big 'team' this 'team McCann'. Thousands who read about this case, about OG and about funding and about 'no progress' think that because..er..nothing's happened and they keep flying around the world.
''It not only sounds ridiculous it is ridiculous. Police are public servants, they are accountable. Then there is the question of why are Scotland Yard even involved in a Portuguese investigation? If there were not British suspects, there would be no need for them. ''
Maybe Military Intelligence advised they get involved.But why were they involved any way ? The 'accountable' police can't account to those on line, or publicly annoying people with the little 'film crews' for youtube, why all their 'truth, facts and evidence' hasn't brought any progress- have they ?
''Pedro do Carmo may have said that Maddie's parents are not suspect. Full stop. But there are many valid reasons for him to have said that.''
The main one being that he was 'accounting' to the public what the official position was and had been for years.
'' There is no doubt that the original investigation was hindered by the publicity circus that surrounded Madeleine's disappearance.''
How ? How did it prevent Amaral from looking beyond the parents and being open to as many possibilities as possible in the crucial first 48 hours ?
Err, actions that speak louder than words. Scotland Yard searching PDL with giant diggers.
DeleteMilitary intelligence? Where have they come from? What have military intelligence got to do with anything?
Actually the police are accountable to the people online and the public in general. However, I respect that they are all probably working under judicial secrecy. Anything they tell the public, they will also be telling to their suspects. There is likely a cat and mouse game on, that's what usually happens.
How did the McCanns media circus hinder Goncalo Amaral? Ok. Trying to get as many 'hits' and calls works wonderfully for a telethon, but not so much for a police investigation. All those crank calls and bogus sightings were taking the Portuguese detectives away from the real suspects. They were, quite literally, being sent on wild goose chases. How could that possibly help Maddie?
Also mean't say, we saw everything that was going on in the first 48 hours 16:41, that is, the scale of the search launched - the biggest in Portugal's history. The police were clearly not just focussed on the parents and it is disingenuous to say they were.
DeleteSo much was recorded 16:41, claims such as 'the police were doing nothing' are quickly disproved. Why do you do it?
''So much was recorded 16:41, claims such as 'the police were doing nothing' are quickly disproved. Why do you do it?''
DeleteI said the investigation was too narrowly focused in choosing to immediately suspect the parents and not budge from it.You chose to attribute the quote '' the police were doing nothing' to me. Why do you do it ? And why put words i didn't say into my mouth so often? Is it easier to rebut something if you re-invent the argument and make it weak enough for you ?
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton25 September 2018 at 17:38
Delete''Err, actions that speak louder than words. Scotland Yard searching PDL with giant diggers.''
Err, when was that and what came of it ?
''Military intelligence? Where have they come from? What have military intelligence got to do with anything?''
The author of your personal Bible, Amaral, claims the case will be solved when two countries have the political( 'political' , note ) will, and MI 5 release their files ( MI= Military Intelligence).
''However, I respect that they are all probably working under judicial secrecy. Anything they tell the public, they will also be telling to their suspects. There is likely a cat and mouse game on, that's what usually happens''
What, it happens for more than eleven years ? It's no 'judicial secret' that nobody's been arrested. What's wrong with them working in 'secrecy' getting the job done then telling us all who they have in custody, who's been arrested and when the court case will be ?
Your closing paragraph is more an episode of Scooby Doo than Murder She Wrote ( again).Let's keep our feet on the ground and our heads out of the clouds shall we.
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton25 September 2018 at 16:13
Delete''Why should Goncalo Amaral come out now to complain about his removal from the case''
He should have done it when it happened.He's had years to do it since.Has he no pride at all ? Did he think there'd be more money selling tack to the masses than in his pension ? Seems so. Then again , his integrity was wrecked once he was found guilty of falsifying evidence before. That was in a case of a fake abduction of a child.The parents were guilty of that killing-they confessed eventually. Amaral seems to think that all parents are therefore guilty of it if their child goes missing.Very professional that.So, his falsified evidence in the McCann case will never emerge as such. They emerged in what the Supreme Court of called a 'literary work'. In common parlance, a fictional work.
Had a great chat tonight with a former Grange Officer Ros . i am giving him your e mail . he will be contacting you
ReplyDeleteWhy on Earth would a former Grange Officer want to contact Ros?
DeleteI shall look forward to it 22:46. I have often suspected officers from OG read here, not least because it gives a valuable insight into the thinking of the McCann media monitors.
DeleteAnonymous25 September 2018 at 09:58
Delete''Why on Earth would a former Grange Officer want to contact Ros?''
Perhaps he's lost Poulton's email address.Maybe the former officer is a 'source'. He can't be a current officer, as he wouldn't be able to divulge anything to another source( 'anonymous from a forum' ).So if we pretend he's a former officer we can pretend his 'information' is genuine.Maybe he'll turn out to be a 'former' officer because 'he got too close'.But I'll bet a King's ransom that his 'conclusions' are that the parents are guilty but he won't be able to say how he knows or who said they had to be protected.It's a new slant on the accusation front.The dogs and Smithman and so on are far too old and tired now.New and fresh BS is called for.The desperate reaching out for anything at all by the antis would be funny if it wasn't the fate of a little girl they were using as their weapon.
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton25 September 2018 at 11:15
''I have often suspected officers from OG read here, not least because it gives a valuable insight into the thinking of the McCann media monitors.''
You suspect anyone not prepared to accuse the parents of being killers is either related to them or part of their 'inner circle'.It's called paranoia.Why would media monitors monitor this blog.It isn't media.It's a blog and it's almost exclusively a place for people to get together and swap theories about how the parents got away with murder, how UK police and politicians messed the evidence up and genuine eye witnesses were silenced too.Anything but 'there's no evidence to say who did anything that's why it isn't solved'.They need these little theories and rants so they can live with themselves for being poisonous and misguided.
Anonymous24 September 2018 at 23:44
'' he tells me apparently it was withdrawn from sale in the UK weeks later . i will see if i can find the NOW images online simple bit of reserch should see if this stands up , as i said in the e mail ,''
What does 'as I said in the email' ? Shouldn't that read ' as HE said in the email' ? Freudian slip ?Oops ;-)
''he's popping round tomorrow for a face to face chat , and he will be contacting you shortly''
I wonder why he doesn't want to sit down for tea and biscuits with a genuine reporter( alt or otherwise), make a call to a radio station or the usual outlets.Or even sell his information- isn't there a reward ? I suppose it's best to sit down anonymously with someone anonymously and then email someone you don't know to put it on a forum.That's realistic.
Anonymous25 September 2018 at 11:11
''I believe it is on a par with the syringe found in the apt along with the bloody footprint!''
A syringe no less. I suppose it beats a candlestick in the library.So, let's pretend that Madeleine was on some sinister medication to make her 'sleep'. Two doctors wouldn't know that sedatives would be in medicine form for a toddler ? No family doctor back home would recognise the family and report that -or is he 'in on it' now too. By the way, was the 'bloody footprint' the blood that Amaral described as 'microscopic' ? Who has such tiny, tiny feet...
Maybe the anon or his anon inside friend could explain which medication ( whether it be a sedative, Calpol or antihistamine) causes a loss of blood so great that people can't help stepping into it and need to bleach away it's traces all over the apartment.
To quote the internet - ''lol''
Gotta say it.When Ziggy's about this blog is far better and the reading is too. I don't have any idea what happened in the case but since reading him on here I've thought a lot more about both sides of it all. I used to think what everyone else seemed to think.If you're reading this Ziggy do you have a blog or would you start one ?
DeleteNot my thing 19:16..
DeleteI considered it a while ago.Couldn't be bothered learning about wordpress and it's no use using Blogger as every letter typed has a carbon copy forwarded to Google.It was bad enough on fakebook about 6 or 7 years ago.You either tow the line, or become a shill.Free thinking is an offence.Spreading it is punishable by Big Brother.It's a rum do to be sure.Bring back the underground and switch off the net.Going backwards is the only way to move forward.That's why we're all f**d.Thanks for the heads up anyway
What absolute nonsense 20:11. Your reasons for not blogging yourself are pathetic and lol paranoid. A carbon copy of every letter is forwarded to Google - so what? If it's a blog it's already in the public domain, deh!
DeleteAnd what's this about towing the line, or becoming a shill? And free thinking being an offence? Stop, your killing me. I have never, in all the years I have run this blog, been contacted by Google or any other authority telling me how to think, or indeed anything else. You are really not getting how this new age of information works are you 20:11? Ironic, as in other debates, you are the one demanding censorship and state control!
What are you really afraid of 20:11? Why not create your own blog - you already have a great title:
'A Rum Do' - crack on ;)
Why on earth are you getting so wound up about such an obvious wind up? I'm merely saying okey dokey, as I always do in such scenarios. You however have had a full board meeting about it! Who's the paranoid one here?
DeleteYou really don't understand the meaning of the word media do you? Yes, my blog is part of the media, it is a medium with which to communicate, get it? Just because you wish to pour scorn on my little blog, you can't place it in isolation from the rest of social media.
I can see why you view media as The Sun and Sky News, but literally thousands of new mediums exist and most discerning readers bypass the biased propaganda of the main stream. The Canary for example, is now a direct challenge to the tabloids. For US politics, I am The Palmer Report's number one fan!
For several years now, my blog has had a wide and growing audience. Sadly, I no longer have the 'traffic feed', as those who ran it, and all thanks to them, had to shut down. Find another one is on my 'to do' list. Like it or not, the discerning followers of the Madeleine case read here for an honest account of what's going on. Or what I, and my contributors perceive is going on. I make no claims to have the ear of anyone, lol. And maybe if I did, I would say. I'm kidding.
I have hundreds, if not thousands of readers from all over the world, as the traffic feed showed. This forum is the opposite of a small band of malcontents spitting venom for one side. While most of the readers don't post(it's very time consuming), they return again and again to read the latest state of play, and for that I am very grateful, it spurs me on.
I don't censor, and I don't ban. My number one 'pest' Ziggy, can and does post (almost) as freely as he wishes. I draw the line at personal abuse, and I don't think anyone can blame me for that. But it may be his full, unrestrained rants are still available on the Myths sites. There you can Ziggy Unleashed, which would also be a good title for a blog ;)
Apart from that I will leave the minutia to you and others who can be arsed with it.
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton26 September 2018 at 13:10
Delete''Your reasons for not blogging yourself are pathetic and lol paranoid. A carbon copy of every letter is forwarded to Google - so what?''
The snooping and invasion of privacy is pure Big Brother.Nobody wants that.Some of us feel strongly about it in principle.Like you and your stand against censorship-except genuine.
''And what's this about towing the line, or becoming a shill? And free thinking being an offence? Stop, your killing me.''
This from someone who was praising Zuckerberg on her blogs last year despite reality being shown to her.It caught up with him and Facebook didn't it.It isn't killing you, you just don't understand anything unless it's talked about on a chat show.Then you're an expert on it.
''Ironic, as in other debates, you are the one demanding censorship and state control!''
One example will do, thank you.We can't have you appearing to be a liar now can we...
''Apart from that I will leave the minutia to you and others who can be arsed with it.''
DeleteIt's your blog, censor as you see fit.Just don't pretend you still have the flower power 60s spirit and go on about how much all censorship disgusts you. You don't mind censoring anyone who exposes how crazy your theories are and how often you lie.That's censorship. Add hypocrisy to that..
Again with the crazy idea that I am hiding the 'good stuff' 16:05, I haven't spammed anything for ages, there are no hidden gems that will completely dismantle everything I have said. I wish there were, I like nothing better than a worthy opponent, unfortunately for Team McCann, they haven't got one.
DeleteNot the good stuff, no. The stuff you can't tackle.
DeleteI know of three posts sent that contained neither personal insults or foul language.Yet they haven't appeared as yet.Why not ?Your points are already being painfully dismantled on a daily basis so you might as well. What is it you don't want published on here ? Simple questions ? Or more taking down of your rumours and silly attempts at composing even sillier narratives for the gullible to swallow and spit up later elsewhere ?
There is nothing you lot say that I can't tackle 21:00, lol. I'm not the one on the defence!
DeleteYou know of three posts, err, so you sent them, lol. They are not in my spam box so why don't you send them again? Or even put them up elsewhere entitled 'this is what Cristobell won't publish'. I look forward to reading them.
I am still a fan of Mark Zuckerberg and the new Masters of the Universe 16:01, they have changed the world. Information is now shared instead of restricted to an elite few. How can that be a bad thing?
Delete…..just one example [of your own demands for censorship]. Gonncalo Amaral's Truth of the Lie. I rest my case.
one of the little titbits , he pointed out , the News of the World Pictures in the apartment there was a bottle of meds in the picture , he did tell me the name medi something , anyway he tells me apparently it was withdrawn from sale in the UK weeks later . i will see if i can find the NOW images online simple bit of reserch should see if this stands up , as i said in the e mail , he's popping round tomorrow for a face to face chat , and he will be contacting you shortly
ReplyDeleteThe heroin of childhood?
DeleteNonsense.
DeleteI believe it is on a par with the syringe found in the apt along with the bloody footprint!
DeleteThe McCanns attended high tea, so there must have been drugs involved somewhere.
DeleteHighly likely, Michelle. I've heard ( on some internet forum) that scones are a class A confectionery in Portugal.And let's face it, we've all done a bit of extreme picnicking ourselves back in the day.I was hardcore back then. I remember using two different jams on the same scone.I was dancing with the devil. I just didn't care.
DeleteMichelle at 19:50
Delete("The McCanns attended high tea...")
Did they?
Catriona Baker: "Kate went to get Madeleine from the Tapas Bar area and according to what I remember she was wearing sporting clothes and I assumed that she was practicing some form of athletics. It was around 15h25/18h00. I think that Gerry was playing tennis."
It's my understanding of Michelle's post that she contends that the McCanns attended hight tea. She doesn't contend that the McCanns weren't running about or playing a sport.Could it be ( bear with me) different times or days. That way they could play tennis and run about on one day, and have high tea on another.They cold even alternate. I haven't checked the correlation between practicing tennis and murder to be honest so I daren't comment.
DeleteShe obviously didn't like him or she wouldn't have referred to him as "that Gerry"
Delete20.08: I can't see the harm in any of that - as long as there was no finger circling of the cherries on the tops of coconut macaroons.
Delete12:22
DeleteIncorrect usage of a colon.
LOL Michelle and the post that follows yours, 20:08.
DeleteHigh tea is so pretentious, I'm surprised I don't use it myself (when in Mrs Bucket mode)!
I laughed out loud at extreme picnicking - must give it a try :)
12:42
DeletePlease leave my colon out of it.
Assuming this isn't a wind up or red herring,the drugs withdrawn in 2007/8
ReplyDeletewere,Tegasoerod (irritable bowel),Pergolide (parkinson's disease),Nefazodone (antidepressant),Lumircoxib ( anti inflammatory) and Clobutinol (cough mixture).
I cant see any sedative type drugs there although I haven't looked at all the ingredients and dont know the effects of high doses of any of the above.
Following on from my post I have found another drug that was withdrawn in 2007 and I read on another forum that Gerry apparently admitted to having.
DeleteTerfenadine (anti histamine). Seldane is a brand name and was the name on the pills (apparently).
Yes, the child bled to death because Gerry forgot to take his hay fever tablets.
DeleteThe pharmaceutical industry are also under the control of the McCanns now ( yeah, why not add them to the mix ).That's why so many drugs wee 'suddenly withdrawn' shortly after Madeleine vanished.To throw everyone off the scent.Is there a list of medication the child was actually on or just Gerry's hay fever tablets? Will more sedatives be added to the list just to make people suspicious of 'the drugging of the children '? Has the family GP been told to look the other way just like the local constabulary, SY and the PJ were ? It's getting ridiculous.
DeleteAnon 25 Sept 19.12
ReplyDeletePerhaps "the child" bled to death because her parents couldn't be bothered to check on her and she'd fallen behind the sofa, cracked her head open and bled to death while they were both boozed out of their minds and didn't find her to the following morning.
Have you thought about that?
Anonymous25 September 2018 at 20:43
Delete''Perhaps "the child" bled to death because her parents couldn't be bothered to check on her and she'd fallen behind the sofa, cracked her head open and bled to death while they were both boozed out of their minds and didn't find her to the following morning.Have you thought about that?''
No.And if i ever do have such a fantasy, or anything similar, I'll seek psychiatric help fast.
So thinking about the reality of what made Madeleine disappear is a cause for psychiatric help? Does that apply to all the detectives on the case? Should they avoid all things unpleasant as it would be a sign of their own disturbed minds?
DeleteMadeleine's disappearance has been turned into a fairy tale, mostly by her parents. The unpleasant facts, the logistics of how Madeleine disappeared, have been avoided for 11+ years.
The truth is, however Madeleine disappeared, it wasn't nice. It was the opposite of nice, which is why we all avoid the graphic details. And for me, that's OK, I don't want to go there either. But it doesn't mean we need psychiatric help fast if we imagine the causes behind the alerts of the blood and cadaver dogs. It is not fantasy, it is reality.
''So thinking about the reality of what made Madeleine disappear is a cause for psychiatric help? Does that apply to all the detectives on the case? Should they avoid all things unpleasant as it would be a sign of their own disturbed minds?''
DeleteIf they share the same twisted dark fantasy yes it does.If it isn't a twisted, dark fantasy, they should have solved the case with the evidence of it being real.Failing to do so makes them a waste of public funding.Why haven't they acted ?You say the police aren't in on a conspiracy and nobody high up has told them to leave it alone so what's the delay ?The theory is far fetched at best, sickening at worst.In the meantime nobody has taken the evidence of it as evidence to prosecute. Get real.
''The truth is, however Madeleine disappeared, it wasn't nice. It was the opposite of nice, which is why we all avoid the graphic details''
A child being snatched is never nice.The 'graphic details' have mainly come about in the imagination.Snatching a child doesn't mean it has to be violent and that there has to be blood all over the place.Even stretching the imagination( the fall of 3 feet behind a sofa of a child weighing a couple of stone), the likelihood of being knocked unconscious is incredibly small.The likelihood of so much blood is almost nil.I'd suggest completely nil.Where was the blood on Gerry M when he was carrying her to the dump ? Or when he came back ?Or on whoever Smith or Tanner saw ? Why have the police never appealed to witnesses for a man carrying a child likely to have blood on his clothing ? Why weren't questions concerning of a 'recent cleaning with bleach' included in the 48 infamous questions rather than ones about how Madeleine got on with her siblings and if Kate had a 'bad feeling' before the holiday. Stick to actual facts rather than opinions and nasty imagined scenarios that have a child covered in blood then dead-then dumped like garbage. You think trolling should be added to the seven deadly sins.But this kind of nonsense is fair play. Sickening.
Good try at pretending the idea of Madeleine being dead is a sick, disturbing fantasy, even from the police who of course spend their days helping fireman rescue kittens from trees.
DeleteUnfortunately such tragedies, a child or adult, falling just a small distance and the fall proving fatal is a frequent occurrence. As doctors the McCanns should know this. And yes, there could well be a lot of blood even with a fall from such a low height. I remember many years ago my older son falling out of his bunk bed and hitting his chin on the bedside table as he fell. It caused his neck to stretch to such a degree that the skin literally split. It was terrifying as you can imagine, and I had to get a taxi in the middle of the night. The 'split' was fixed with a kind of superglue that held the skin together. I was also told, that this kind of under chin injury is extremely common.
I'm blown away by your next sentence. 'where was the blood on Gerry M when he was carrying her to the dump'. Wow is all I can say. I have never in all these years heard anyone say Gerry was carrying her to the dump. Carrying her yes, but not to the dump. What have you given away there? Hope OG are looking in.
Telling myself and those who contribute here to stick to the facts, and stop voicing opinions is a spit in the wind and LOL funny. Presumably you never watch or read opinion pieces.
You say snatching a child doesn't have to be violent. I am truly stuck for words. You think being snatched from your bed by a stranger is not violent? 'The likelihood of being knocked unconscious is incredibly small'. Ok. But the child seen by the Smith family, and indeed Jane Tanner, was unconscious, rather than in a deep sleep. Had she been awake she would have heard her father talking to Jez Wilkins and screamed blue murder.
As to your demands that blood evidence should be produced, you forget, these were doctors who would have been well aware of the importance of blood evidence. Ie. Get rid of it.
''Good try at pretending the idea of Madeleine being dead is a sick, disturbing fantasy, even from the police who of course spend their days helping fireman rescue kittens from trees. ''
DeleteI don't know what you're banging on about with the police /firemen/kittens thing.It's a bit stupid. To put you straight again,I said the idea of her being dead and then inventing graphic descriptions of the scene before the 'perps' cleaned it up is sick.The clown who posted it even went on to suggest the parents were drunk out of their minds.You don't consider that sick as you have little or no concept of what genuinely is sick minded. However, if you can show me a link or source that states that the child is dead it will be a start.Otherwise her death remains a fantasy in the collective consciousness of those pretending to be discussing it as they 'want justice'.
Do the McCanns tell the officers of Operation Grange that they are indulging in sick fantasies? Searching for a body and digging up the ground is after all, taking that sick fantasy to extremes.
DeleteMedised . Was the medicine withdrawn . , from sale in the UK shortly after the Mccan case kicked off , I have forwarded Your E mail onto the ex copper , any grange police reading will know him , a "larger" than life chap . To all the Doubters out there Ros knows who i am .. i am sure what he has to say will be enlightening i was on the phone to him nearly an hour but Ros has the writing skills i lack
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous25 September 2018 at 21:22
DeleteHow does Ros know who you are if you post as Anonymous?
Who's email have you forwarded to the larger than life chap?
I thought he was going to pop round today for a face to face chat?
Ros can be identified by a pink Carnation on her right lapel. The larger than life chap is probably BoJo ( Boris Johnson). They probably had the face to face but due to them both wearing disguises, didn't recognise each other.
DeleteAnonymous25 September 2018 at 22:16
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous25 September 2018 at 21:22
How does Ros know who you are if you post as Anonymous?
Who's email have you forwarded to the larger than life chap?
I thought he was going to pop round today for a face to face chat?
We i have been on a video shoot , in putney , today , and it dragged on sadly, im staying at my friends house in Surrey , she was the connection with the police officer ,
we were going to have a currie tonight as well , but it just got to late , i have to grade the footage and all that
Ros knows who i am as i sent an e mail to her last night , and as she is a very smart lady , she will be able to work out who i am , i have forwarded ros email and website to the former police officer ,
He was un aware of this or most other sites , that may come as a shock to some ,I also contacted Sonia Poulton last night again forwarded her website on
thats all for now i have work to do !!!
What was the footage you had to grade?
DeleteRoswell autopsy?
''Ros knows who i am as i sent an e mail to her last night , and as she is a very smart lady , she will be able to work out who i am''
DeleteIf you know each other why would she need to work out who you are.Why couldn't you just sign off the email with your name. Are you serious about this little espionage fantasy ? It reads like you're a bit mad.
How can a former OG officer ( set up to review the case) be unaware of most of the websites concerning the case when they feature so prominently in all public opinions generated by it?
Your fellow 'film maker' is the 'connection' between you and the 'officer' ? You need to get ideas from better and more original, higher budget movies in future.You're unintentionally bringing much needed light relief to the blog. Unfortunately, it's dangerously close to becoming a laughing stock.
The spy who came in from the pub
DeleteZiggy it's you taking the piss and then responding to yourself using a VPN to change your ip so Ros doesn't know.
DeleteYou tried to disguise your writing style,but not enough I'm afraid.
The friend of the ex Grange guy and top film editor only exists in your head.
You cant fool me, I'm the real meister here as far as having a laugh goes.
Why does Ros want my ip ? can you say why-or will she say why ? I'd be interested to know. I'm sure Google would too.
Delete@ 13:54
DeleteTaking the piss ? Moi ? As if I would. I like the Austin Powers movies.
Have you started to censor again, Rosalinda ? Who are we protecting from criticism now I wonder. Or is it the mythical 'spam box' again.Somehow i doubt it.it's just censoring.That's hypocritical.
ReplyDeleteShe has.Unfortunately she hasn't censored mad people. She's censored or refused to publish posts taking her latest silliness apart or laughing at the so-called insiders posting.It's falling apart
DeleteIt's an on line Bedlam.Ask them to talk sense or use some evidence and they scream and panic . It's a sad day, even for the haters.
DeleteYou can quit with the use of the term 'haters' on here 19:38. You are not lowering the debate with your limited playground vocabulary.
DeleteNo-one is screaming or panicking, in fact, I'm mostly bemused, we appear to watching the Team McCann melt down. It was always expected by the way.
You forget that I and my readers are simply observers, we are not emotionally involved, so we have no need to scream or panic. As for your side, anger is always simmering near the surface, with two cover all responses 'there's no evidence' and the police 'have got nothing', being the strongest and only rebuttals they have. I guess I'd get frustrated if I didn't have the arguments or communication skills to win a debate.
"AGENT FAQS
ReplyDeleteTo help clarify some of the myths and misconceptions about what MI5 agents do and how we recruit them, we have tried to answer some frequently asked questions.
What might I be asked to do?
You will be asked to help us by sharing information you already know or by being prepared to find out that information we need to carry out our work to protect national security. Each agent is different and that is why the relationship with the agent handler is key. They will provide advice on how you could safely get the information we need to help prevent such things as future acts of terrorism or espionage.
The way in which each person is able to assist MI5 is unique. Part of the role of the agent handler is to discuss with you how and when you can help, fitting in with other commitments in your life, such as your work or family. We work closely with each of our agents to make sure they are able to manage what we are asking them to do. Some people work with us for a very short period of time; others help us over the course of months or even years."
More:
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/agent-faqs
I liked the bit about the handler.
DeleteWho posted that on here? It's supposed to be secret!
DeleteInteresting it doesn't mention the taking over of a police investigation but does mention national security.I wonder how the parents allegedly burying their own child or a random kidnapper constituted a threat to the UK's national security. Yet there it is.It's political.That means politicians were / are involved.That means the 'ransom' must have come in the form of blackmail.It explains why it's been funded so heavily and involved so many politicians from two parties over the years and why nobody has been arrested.Makes far more sense than the Agatha Christie wannabe theories.
Deleteziggy sawdust26 September 2018 at 11:45
DeleteIf you are going to impersonate, at least go for accuracy.Be funnier or be smarter.Or just impersonate someone you're able to.
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/partnerships
Delete"Foreign security and intelligence services
We are charged with protecting national security, which may be threatened both in the UK and overseas. We work closely with our counterparts in other countries to ensure the security of UK interests overseas. In an increasingly globalised world, threats to our key partners have an impact on the UK's national security too. In many areas of our work we rely heavily on the support of SIS and the assistance given by foreign security and intelligence services."
I don't see anyone rushing to say 'by George, you've got it' 11:46. Trying to turn the tiny bit of information you have into a James Bond movie, is clutching at straws. What next the 'Men in Black'. I am sure there are many McCann supporters willing to verify that an alien snuck into their flat and hid their fags, abduction is just one step away.
DeleteRosalinda, Cristobell Hutton26 September 2018 at 16:42
Delete''I don't see anyone rushing to say 'by George, you've got it' 11:46. Trying to turn the tiny bit of information you
have into a James Bond movie, is clutching at straws''
In my defence, I was sent down the track of espionage by Amaral going on about British Military Intelligence influencing the case to protect his 'suspects' and influencing his bosses to remove him. Shall we call it the 'clutching at straws' theory' in his honour ? Or wasn't it so ridiculous when he said it.Can't have it both ways...
I heard a rumour( on some internet forum) that it was Amaral who started the 'aliens abducted the fags' theory but the media were gagged.The Supreme Court would have allowed that I'd wager..
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2018/09/25/home-office-in-the-media/
ReplyDelete25 September 2018
The Home Office responds to media coverage on funding for Operation Grange.
(...)
"We have received and are considering a request from the MPS to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019."
"There has been media coverage of funding for Operation Grange, the Metropolitan Police Service’s (MPS) operation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
ReplyDeleteSome of the recent coverage has suggested that funding for Operation Grange will expire on 30 September 2018, and that the MPS will be unable to continue the operation thereafter unless additional funds are provided.
We have received and are considering a request from the MPS to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.
Funding for Special Grant applications can be paid retrospectively for operational work already done in the same financial year. It is therefore incorrect to suggest that the MPS would have to discontinue its operational work after 30 September 2018 unless additional funds were provided in advance of this date.
The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange."
Straight from the horses mouth.
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2018/09/25/home-office-in-the-media/
Thank you for that sensible input 10:31.
DeleteWhether Operation Grange are given funding or not, it never makes any difference to our knowledge of what is going on. I suspect more funding is bad news for those involved in Madeleine's disappearance. Operation Grange is ongoing, they are not giving up. As I have said on many occasions, if their object was to conclude the case with no result, it would have concluded years ago. That they require further funding suggests they are onto something that can be prosecuted.
I find it bizarre that anyone still thinks Operation Grange is a cover up. It suggests they have no idea whatsoever how a cover up works. Step One: Don't launch a publicity campaign.
Cover ups only work if we know nothing about them. That is they passed under our radar. They are done and dusted. Forever (mostly). I think we can all agree the Madeleine case has been the opposite of that. The 'secret' hasn't been restricted to a tiny handful of people, it has gone way beyond that. I suspect it's the 'who knew' aspect that is turning this investigation into something monumental.
I can't see a post at 10:31
DeleteWhat are we going to talk about when Grange is suspended until further evidence comes to light? (which means never)
ReplyDeleteLet's be honest here. All we really want to know is if Kate can make love to Gerry again yet. I think we should be told.
ReplyDeleteKate McCann: "Unfortunately due to many commitments and pressures, I am unable at this time to attend to website orders."
DeleteRos, you're being trolled or used by a majority of the posters on here. It's not doing you or your reputation any good.They are mocking you and it's unpleasant to witness: even silence would be better than this. Best wishes.
ReplyDeleteDefine 'trolled'.
Delete@ john blacksmith26 September 2018 at 12:21
DeleteFor once I agree with you - but I must point out that it is Ros who decides what is or not published on here - Ros also has the ability to delete posts even after they are published (she has done so in the past).
Hi John, going by your blogs, I perceive you are well, they are quite brilliant!
DeleteI have always been trolled John, though I agree they have taken it up a few notches of late. I see that as a sign of the increasing desperation.
Rightly, or wrongly, I am comparing the closing in on Donald Trump to the closing in on the McCanns. He goes into a frenzy as each scandal unfolds. I fear the whole world laughing at him could trigger something catastrophic.
But back to trolls. The largest group are undoubtedly the McCann family and/or anyone vulnerable to charges themselves. Literally no-one outside that group would be hating on Goncalo Amaral to the extent that they do.
Next up, those who hate me personally. It's not new, sadly, I have throughout my life, been the object of hatred for some people, even right back to when I was a kid. I have encountered 'Mean Girls' from my school days to every office I have ever worked in. They have always taken an intense dislike to my freedom of speech and thought. I don't 'act my age', whatever that's supposed to mean, and my loud 'perfect' English, grates on them.
Happily, most found my eccentricities quite charming, and those in the know 'got' the ribbing and humour behind the perfect English, and quickly became giggly friends. Sadly, the facial expressions and laughs as I type are not seen by those who take absolutely everything, literally.
I do struggle, it must be said, to distinguish between trolling and genuine posts. And then I am faced with that huge, and very troubling scenario for me, question of judging what I should and shouldn't publish. As you know I wear my passion for freedom of speech as a badge of honour - who am I to judge what is or isn't trolling, what is or isn't subversive.
My own ideas and views are extremely subversive, which is why I was banned from everywhere, lol. I overcame all those bans by opening a blog. Here, I am unbound from anyone's rules, bias or sheer pig ignorance. I can and do, say as I like. But look who I am telling, lol.
To be honest, most of the jibes go over my head, I've heard them all before, heck, everyone has. What a shame for the McCanns that they have never had anyone on their team with creativity and writing skills.
As you know John, it is impossible to gauge how a text will be interpreted by a reader. You and I have a good idea after years of experience. Kate doesn't, or she wouldn't have made such an obvious error with her recent statement on shutting up shop.
But I digress. I once read a quote from a famous writer (and I have been kicking myself ever since for not remembering the writer's name and the exact wording of the quote). But it was something like, 'if I am hated, I am doing my job'.
I am, quite often, deliberately provocative. It takes the discussion up a couple of notches, lol. I'm afraid since childhood, a little devil within me loves a shock reaction. If I had had the guts, I would have made a great stand up comedian!
I see the trolls as hecklers John. Sometimes they are handy for me to try a new line or throw in a curve ball. The worst, I do bin, I'm only human. No-one wants to see stuff like written about them. I do have to wonder what goes on in their twisted heads.
Apologies for being 'street' there 'hating on Trump', I think if I said it out loud to a young person they would double up laughing. I remember how my students would react whenever tried anything like that in my lectures!
DeleteAnyhow, I had intended to continue. It is only on very rare occasions that I think about the mentality behind the trolls John. Probably because I don't really care. Whatever problems they have are theirs' alone. Their posts display their ignorance John, not mine. When they go low, I go high (like Michelle Obama), in fact I point out the ignorance in case it goes over or under the attention of the average reader.
This blog can't and won't sink to the murky depths of the cesspit and the Myths sites, because the kind of discussion they had to offer was so offensive and vitriolic. They have tried, many times, to introduce that kind of rhetoric here but they have failed. Not because of my stringent spamming or censoring, but because there is simply no demand for it.
Ziggy may have an awful lot to say John, but he has yet to say anything of substance, anything to knock Goncalo Amaral's theory off the top spot. I think the fact that he is trying to bring international espionage and James Bond, funny, but also a bit sad. Has it come to that? The McCanns have been bound by the Official Secrets Act. Despite that they were able to give hundreds of press interviews and launch huge publicity campaigns. As you do when you are bound by Official Secrets.
Being made Judge of anything sends shivers down my spine John. It is probably fortunate for everyone that I have never in my life had any aspirations to sit on a Magistrates bench. I would probably empty the prisons and get every Defendant 'to tell me all about it'. On the one occasion I was called to do Jury service, I went full '12 Angry Men' on my fellow jurors until they found the 16 year old boy charged with knife crime, innocent on all charges. And yes, one of my proudest moments.
I will ride the storm John, probably because I have to. I don't, as far as I know, have any facilities to ban or censor, but to be fair, I have never looked into it.
For those who troll me, I think 'ah well, at least they one interest in life'. As they don't know me, they can only be projecting aspects of their own life, perhaps even of themselves. I am actually way too narcissistic and self absorbed to waste any of my, very valuable thinking time, on them. They have no more impact on my life than a gnat, actually the gnat has the edge, a bite can make me itch for hours after.
In any case take care John, and many thanks for your continued kindness. I always feel honoured that you read here, I have always and still do, consider you the Oracle in this case John, in the early days as a prisoner of CMoMM, your blogs were a ray of light to look up to. In fact it is through your goodself, that much of the fog was lifted from my eyes.
The Haters are gonna hate (more street, lol) John, but I quite like that I have an option to fight back and challenge their obvious lies. I remember the old days, when the only option we had was a Mr or Mrs Angry from Tonbridge Wells letters, that may or not get published. I have to say 'readers comments' were always my favourite sections in a newspaper or magazine. Probably why my Blog has always been interactive, I love to receive comments, even bad ones.
But I get your message John and it is caring one. But to quote Marilyn Monroe; 'they think I'm crazy....but trust me. I'm 100% there'.
''Rightly, or wrongly, I am comparing the closing in on Donald Trump to the closing in on the McCanns. He goes into a frenzy as each scandal unfolds. I fear the whole world laughing at him could trigger something catastrophic''
DeleteThat one short paragraph sums up your disturbing obsession.Trump is the president of the US, the leader of the free world.The man with the potential to lose is head and turn to the big red button and start trying to hold the world to ransom before he gets carted off to a mental institution.Imagine that, a nuclear stand off like back in the day of the Bay Of Pigs.But then you've compared that event to the McCanns losing their child too have you not.No matter how much of your life and your daily routine the McCann case takes , no amount of stretching will elevate it to that of a potential nuclear war.Sorry about that. It isn't political, remember (or have you woke up to the fact it has to be ? )
Can you explain what you mean by '' to the closing in on the McCanns.'' ? The term suggests that the closing in is from the detectives and that the McCanns are about to be arrested.That's yet more of your wishful thinking and bad will spilling out again.Do you think the closing of OG, then of the case, amounts to 'closing in on the McCanns' ? Seriously ?Or does it look more like a final admission that it's been going nowhere and the money's gone so it's time to shelve it ' until any information or developments transpire'( in other words, put it in the cooler.
When people comment and mock posts like this you and your fellow antis call it trolling.It isn't trolling, it's mocking because some things invite such.
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton26 September 2018 at 15:42
Delete''Ziggy may have an awful lot to say John, but he has yet to say anything of substance, anything to knock Goncalo Amaral's theory off the top spot. I think the fact that he is trying to bring international espionage and James Bond, funny, but also a bit sad. ''
True to Ros form. If you can't defeat an argument or respond to a request, try to attack whoever presented them and hope to colour opinion. Cheap.I thought you were an 'intellectual' , Ros. You haven't said as much for a few days but I'm sure I recall you mentioning it on a daily basis a few months ago....I see your 'faithful few' respond on here.It's a shrinking and repetitious few too.As soon as you expose your naivety or vile bias( or others pick up on it and say so) and it's pointed out, out they come shouting angry words and not really aiding you in any useful way other than to let you know that you're not alone in your crazy and unsupportable ideas.Great.
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton26 September 2018 at 14:40
Delete''Hi John, going by your blogs, I perceive you are well, they are quite brilliant!''
( Hi John, I see that you won't look past the parents, just like me.and that you think Amaral is a martyr.Thanks for coming to show support as things were getting silly again on here.)
You believe you have put me right 16:08, I can imagine you sat there with your arms folded and an insidiously smug expression.
DeleteI make no apologies for my 'obsession' with Trump. I am enough of a historian to know that we are watching (live unfortunately) the biggest threat to mankind since Hitler. Would you have been among those Germans who said 'oh well, he is the Fuhrer' so he must be right.
Anon 26 Sept 16.08
DeleteSo according to your post no-one is closing in on the McCanns and you know that because .......
Are you CM or Walker, both of them being the McCanns' mouth pieces or are you all Gerry's relatives. Poor Madeleine didn't stand a chance when so many people came out of the woodwork to protect her parents but which one of you is protecting Madeleine and her memory?
Yes, think about that all you trolls who are protecting her parents. Why do they need protecting, what about Madeleine, she is the victim here not her parents.
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton26 September 2018 at 16:53
Delete''You believe you have put me right 16:08, I can imagine you sat there with your arms folded and an insidiously smug expression.I make no apologies for my 'obsession' with Trump...''
Two points.
Point 1 : As talented as I am, even I can't type with folded arms.
Point2 : If you think the thrust of the post to which you are responding was your obsession with Trump, then once again you've illustrated how lacking you are in comprehension skills.
Anonymous26 September 2018 at 16:55
Delete''So according to your post no-one is closing in on the McCanns and you know that because .......''
Because they could only do it if they had enough evidence against them to make an arrest.If they have, why don't they just arrest them instead of closing in.Then of course there's the small matter of the calender.When Madeleine went missing she was 3 years old about to be 4 years old.Now, she would be browsing brochures to see which University she might like going to in a couple of years once her exams were done and dusted.
''Are you CM or Walker, both of them being the McCanns' mouth pieces or are you all Gerry's relatives. ''
I'm Gerry's secret twin and Kate's uncle.Grow up. Do not assume that not believeing guesses that have nothing in the way of evidence to support them means you have to be related to the parents of the child.Does everyone have to be related to them just because they won't pick up a torch to carry and raid their village ?
'' Poor Madeleine didn't stand a chance when so many people came out of the woodwork to protect her parents ''
It only matters what the police force of Portugal and of the UK do.Or done.Who are the 'people who came out of the woodwork' ? Do they have names and are you prepared to say how you believe they protected the parents ? Or is your post just another toothless and snide dig ?
''Yes, think about that all you trolls who are protecting her parents''
So a troll is now someone protecting another who they consider is being slandered, libelled or victimised.The definitions on here are almost hilarious.Do any of you understand anything ?
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton26 September 2018 at 15:42
Delete''Apologies for being 'street' there 'hating on Trump''
It isn't 'street'. it's merely using an Americanism.You were trying to sound American. Embarrassing.
I despair of your seriousness 19:35, do you not see humour in anything? Bet your the life and soul at a part. Not.
Delete''I despair of your seriousness 19:35, do you not see humour in anything? Bet your the life and soul at a part. Not.''
DeletePart what ? Whereas your natural charm, pleasantness and charisma draws everyone to you.Maybe it's the Grim Reaper costume or the crystal ball.
That's right, Blacksmith, silence would be better.Be quiet.
ReplyDeletejohn blacksmith 26 Sept 12.21
ReplyDeleteRos is well aware she's being trolled as are the rest of us. The trolls are trying to take over and shut down discussion. It's interesting to note how many trolls come on board when something is being discussed they are very unhappy about, if it doesn't affect their lives why bother?
Although it seems it does affect their lives and they are getting very tetchy and uncomfortable, the OG request for further funds getting people's knickers in a twist perhaps.
Is a troll a troll because they don't like lies and ask for them to be proven then ? Is that what you mean by 'something being discussed they are very unhappy about' ? I'd have thought the trolls are the ones starting or spreading lies or rumours.You can't call someone a troll just because they use two dirty words : ''show evidence''
DeleteAnonymous26 September 2018 at 09:15
ReplyDeleteWhat was the footage you had to grade?
Roswell autopsy?
No . a boring Corporate video . , im a stills photographer , but the way things are going and all that .... please dont try and take the piss as what i am saying is the truth , i have mentioned months ago i was trying to get to chat to this copper ,finaly i have , i chatted again today , he tells me he was reading Blacksmith and he will be making contact with Ros
ReplyDeleteAnonymous26 September 2018 at 11:48
''Ros knows who i am as i sent an e mail to her last night , and as she is a very smart lady , she will be able to work out who i am''
If you know each other why would she need to work out who you are.Why couldn't you just sign off the email with your name. Are you serious about this little espionage fantasy ? It reads like you're a bit mad.
My name is on the e mail i sent her you clown . but clearly i don't post post my name on this site it attracts to many nutters !!
How can a former OG officer ( set up to review the case) be unaware of most of the websites concerning the case when they feature so prominently in all public opinions generated by it?
He's a former Grange officer you are not , he told me he did not know this site and Blacksmiths , he may well know other sites who knows .. next
Your fellow 'film maker' is the 'connection' between you and the 'officer' ? You need to get ideas from better and more original, higher budget movies in future.You're unintentionally bringing much needed light relief to the blog. Unfortunately, it's dangerously close to becoming a laughing stock.
well im based North of England . My Friend lives in Surrey
do the Math as for a laughing stock. only in your own head
Nice try but no cigar ... quite frankly i don't give a toss what you or anyone else thinks ,
On the drive home today i had a nice chat again , he will defo be making contact with Ros and Sonia Poulton , so i guess you will have to watch this space
now go and do a little rebuttal of the drug
Medised that features on photographs taken in apartment 5a , the drug was withdrawn shortly afterwards , straight from the coppers mouth.
Lol, is there a banned/withdrawn medicine for verbal diarrhea?
DeleteIf so,will someone give Ziggy an overdose?
Yeah, thanks for that Johnny English.
Delete''now go and do a little rebuttal of the drug
DeleteMedised that features on photographs taken in apartment 5a , the drug was withdrawn shortly afterwards , straight from the coppers mouth. ''
That could be argued as accidental death or misadventure if it was found to be dangerous later.But did the copper with the mouth explain why it wasn't pursued ?Why the parents weren't quizzed about it ? Or did they interview the family GP ? Or did he think he'd keep it under his hat in case he was ever taken off the review and he'd email it to Ros.Don't make me lol.
''well im based North of England . My Friend lives in Surrey do the Math as for a laughing stock. only in your own head ''
Do the math ? Are you another trying to sound American ? What is it with you lot.That aside, what is the 'math' I'm doing with regard to something that's in my head ? Do you drink ?
''On the drive home today i had a nice chat again , he will defo be making contact with Ros and Sonia Poulton , so i guess you will have to watch this space ''
Like everyone else, I'll be on tenterhooks.
Ziggy....you,you,you, TROLL!!!
DeleteEvery troll has his day
DeleteZigzaggy certainly had his day yesterday,phew.
Delete75% at least of the comments were his,even the posts talking to himself as supposedly other people were him.
"john blacksmith26 September 2018 at 12:21
ReplyDeleteRos, you're being trolled or used by a majority of the posters on here. It's not doing you or your reputation any good.They are mocking you and it's unpleasant to witness: even silence would be better than this. Best wishes."
------------------------------------------
Ros you would do far better if you took the advise of the "oracle" rather than once again launching into irrelevant information about your background and history.
As blacksmith says: "It's not doing you or your reputation any good."
Actually, I believe it is my stream of consciousness writing that brings my readers back again and again 17:29. My style of writing is quite unique, readers literally have no idea what I am going to say next. Neither have I, lol.
DeleteOf course other forms of writing on the McCann case are available, Bennett, Thompson, Not Textusa, who never say anything anecdotal or amusing, perhaps they would suit you better?
Watching Zigger giving Ros a mauling on a daily basis is painful.It's like watching a Rottweiler rip a kitten up.The saddest part of it , or funniest depending on your point of view, is that Ros seems to think she's the Rottweiler lol
ReplyDeleteAnd he's become bored again.I expected better here.But it's Groundhog Day.Nothing changes, nobody changes.I hoped the quality of discussion and debate would have risen a few notches in the last few months.I see it hasn't. I'm afraid It's not a place worthy of my attention or my presence.
DeleteWhatever happens in the case ( shelved or closed) I expect you'l all find another 11 years of nonsense talking about just why and what was behind it 'in reality' and then go on to describe that reality in terms of your own fantasies.That won't go anywhere either, sadly. The majority here ( the blinkered angry vigilantes) need to ask themselves some questions...If they get their little lottery win and the parents get arrested and put in jail, how many will just accept that.How many will ignore the amount of money been spent on it and the amount of time it took for them to come to the conclusions you all came to all them years ago ? Who will accept that the UK side of the operation was so poor for so long ? What was the delay and who-in the corridors of power- knew all along and protected them all the same ?
They're only a handful of points none of you realise would close the case as 'solved' even if the parents were guilty.They'd take a ship down with them.But try not to think about that, you have ranting to do and rumours to spread.I dread to think of the meltdown when the ECHR stick the boot in too.
The case hasn't been open for years.It couldn't have been.Nothing has happened.That's not the Ros theory of softly softly catchy monkey by the way.They had nothing and they have less now.
Enjoy...
ZSVT (esquire)
So my blog is not worthy of your attention or your presence. Is that you Kate?
DeleteGood heavens I can't think of anything worse than discussing this case for the next 11 years. Like most, I am just hanging in there for the result so I can move on.
'Who will accept the UK side of the operation was so poor for so long?' The only ones saying that are the madcap forums where they want their own pet theories to be confirmed. Are the McCanns saying it? Apparently not, they are encouraged, whatever that means.
If you dread the ECHR sticking the boot in too, then why are you, or they, putting yourselves through it? It's all over now, nobody cares. GA won, get over it.
You say the case couldn't have been open for years because nothing has happened. How could you possibly know that? Operation Grange are reporting something back to the Home Office, if they weren't they would not be granted more funds. The assumption that OG are doing nothing and have nothing, is pure fantasy on your part. And of course another taunt at the police. Why do you do it? Taunts such as 'there is no evidence' only make detectives work harder to find some. But, as with your introductory lines here, 'I'm too good for this place', your people skills are abominable.
With regard to the ECRH, i wouldn't say it's over would you ? GA won very little. The boot could eventually come from the ECRH to him.But that's not really why I'm posting. You quite often ask how anyone could possibly know that nothings happened as though it's a silly thing to suggest.But the parents, Robert Murat, the Tapas friends and all the supposed suspects are getting on with their lives and have been for over 11 years.The little girl, if she's still alive,is 15 now, 16 next year.The only thing that's happened is the repeated request for money to do it all again for another year.These are facts, unless something I've said is wrong and you can point it out.But you call the facts fantasies.You seem to prefer theories whatever they are.
DeleteI think your optimism with regard to the ECHRs is insane. Why would a progressive, enlightened body of Judges who's objective is to uphold human rights, deny Goncalo Amaral the right to tell his side of the story?
DeleteHaven't you wasted enough money (from Madeleine's Fund?) in pursuing fruitless, and pointless, legal actions.
Your proof that nothing is happening is the fact that Robert Murat, the Tapas friends and all the supposed suspects are getting on with their lives...…… implying that none of them have ever been contacted by Operation Grange or the PJ.
OK. However, the evidence of the parents and the tapas friends, even if they are completely innocent, will be vital to any prosecution, they are the victims. The police cannot build a case anyone without the supporting evidence of all those who were there on the night.
That they have not been contacted in 11 years is a bizarre claim 12:52. Why are they contacting the police? Asking for updates, asking what progress is being made, and most importantly, asking what happened to their child?
How can parents of a missing child get on with their lives knowing the police searching for their daughter are doing nothing? They should be hopping mad and contacting all the media as they did when they claimed the PJ were doing nothing.
This case cannot be solved without the assistance of the parents and their friends. They were the last people to see Madeleine alive. From the McCanns' perspective, that the police are not telling them what is going does not bode well.
And just to be clear, my views and opinions are not based on fantasy. They are influenced by the official files of the Portuguese police and the book of former detective Goncalo Amaral.
Sick, 12:52, is the delusional idea that Madeleine is now 15. If the parents truly believed that why aren't they appealing directly to her on social media? I think we all know the answer to that.
They'd uphold human rights possibly by outlining that it's illegal to make allegations and make such serious allegations against somebody that can clearly damage their reputations and subject them to hostility and hatred.Only if they also outline that Amaral has written his suspicions but not facts wold have a chance of his free speech. I didn't say I was optimistic about anything.It doesn't bother me either way and it wasn't the main reason i posted.I think calling anything you don't like insanse is childish. I didn't say anything about proof of nothing happened.I just pointed out that nothing has happened and nobody's been put in prison or in court yet so that's the same as nothing isn't it ? I don't know if the parents have been contacteiong the police for updates or not.I don't know how you know either ? It isn't like that stuff is put in newspapers.How do we know the police haven't said that they'd be in touch with the parents as soon as anything happens ? We don't.You seem to though.
DeleteYou say the case can't be solved without the assistance of the parents. How does that work ? The police had 2007 to use everything the parents said as a reason to arrest them or let them stay free. Why is it sick to say the child would be almost 16 years old now ? It's almost 2019 and she was almost 4 in 2007 when she was taken.You say we all know the answer.Are you saying everyone who knows about the case knows the answer except the police then ?
Ros, maybe you could just confirm or deny that you have had an email from somebody that you (now) know confirming what they have posted on this thread? Maybe you could even comment on their credentials?
ReplyDeleteOtherwise allowing it to continue is just feeding the trolls for the benefit of your post count.
ROFL 21:07. You start out as if you are a 'friend' because you want something, yet finish with a dig at me about my post count. You just couldn't keep the civility going, could you, ha ha.
DeleteIn response I am telling you sweet FA, enjoy! :)
@ Ros 09:00
DeleteBelieve me Ros I am never your "friend".
Thankyou for your clear, intelligent, well thought out reply - you have answered my question perfectly.
Blacksmith is correct - you are being trolled and it's not doing you or your reputation any good.
Blacksmith is indeed correct,the Bowie wannabe character is spoiling the blog.But I guess that's the intention.
DeleteI just wish the jokes about the medical men coming to take him away were true.
There must be some way to get rid of him surely?
I know all the arguments about censorship etc and you dont have to read his posts if you dont want to,yet can one person spoil things for the many and nothing can be done about it?
I think anyone new looking in would conclude that the blog is a troll's playground and soon leave too.
Just imagine how easy it would be to navigate the blog if that troll's posts were not there or were invisible if you didn't want to see them.
"I'm Happy They Took You Away, Ha-Haaa!"
DeleteOuch, 11:05, so you will never be my friend! Give me a moment to wipe away the tears.
DeleteI think what we have here is Shroedinger's Cat, or is it Occum's Razor? We don't know what the effect of my banning Ziggy would have on the success or otherwise of my blog.
From my perspective the cat will stay in the box, and Occum's razor can do whatever it does. Not only am I passionately opposed, I also can't be arsed. As a teacher I thought I would love the use of the red pen when marking and correcting my students' work, but I didn't. Well I did for a while, lol. To soften the blow, I would put encouraging remarks in the margin.
But back to the censoring. My blog has evolved quite naturally 11:05, and quite successfully I might add, without 'Rules' and directives from myself as to how to post. As if, lol. I always have a chuckle at those who insist on rules and regulations.
I don't think for one minute that anyone new looking in would see my blog as a trolls playground. The discussions are diverse and interesting. I don't publish or receive, the kind of spiteful, mean girls posts that CMoMM and the Myths sites, thrive on. I am a reasonable person, ergo, (on the whole)I receive comments from reasonable people.
Your attempts to label my blog as a 'hate site' or trolls playground fall on stony ground, especially for new readers who can see for themselves that those spiteful labels do not apply.
Ziggy has, or will move on, matters not one iota to me. I'm rarely, if ever, offended by the written word or alternative opinions. I truly do not understand how people can be so touchy about other people's opinions of them. The McCanns' obsession with seeking out and destroying all their critics must make their lives a living hell.
I'm more bemused that I am taking up that much room in someone's head. Being a complete narcissist and totally self absorbed, all trivia goes directly to the shredder in my hippocampus! I used to read the Myths sites and the cesspit when they talking about me, but only because they were talking about me, lol. When they stopped (because they knew I was laughing at them), I didn't bother reading them anymore. The only time I look is when someone on here brings something to my attention.
To be honest, I write mostly for myself. That is I write the kind of texts that I like to read. Ziggy's grabbed my attention for a while, but he falls into that trap, 'if you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'.
Rather than try to explain why his 'it was all a government conspiracy manoeuvred by Clarence Mitchell' he writes lengthy diatribes that make most of us switch off.
I don't have the power to ban, I don't want the power to ban 11:05. I simply do not see the logic is blocking the opponent's views, argument, opinions. I want to see them, I want an insight into what others are thinking. For me the forums and the facebook pages were infuriating, they always shut down or locked discussions just as they were getting interesting.
Everyone has a voice here (as long as they can be civil) 11:05. The idea of publishing only those posts that agree with me is abhorrent. I love to hear alternate views, and there have been many times over the years where my own views have changed due to new information! I am fortunate to have such knowledgeable readers and I have no reservations in acknowledging when I am wrong. I often am. But that's not to say I'm not stubborn. I hear and respect Blacksmith's opinion, but I pay so little attention to trolls, I am not going to change anything because of them.
I don't agree with the ''if you can't explain simply you don't understand it enough''. It sounds clever but it doesn't really work how you're using it. Are you saying everyone online who suspects the parents understand everything well and the likes of Ziggy or the police or anyone who says there's no proof don't understand it ? What is it that the police don't understand would you say ? I'm not sure anyone who as you say 'switches off' to those expressing an opinion that's the opposite of there's understands how a discussion works so shouldn't really comment on those expressing it.If you switch off you miss it and if you miss it you shouldn't comment on it or try to comment about whoever said something you don't agree with. You and the few oters keep going on about trolls without really explaining what you think a troll or trolling means. Ziggy disagreed with the popular theories on pretty good grounds imo.Does that make him a troll ? I think his input made your blog better.
DeleteUnfortunately, your failure to understand my use of the Einstein quote has taken you off into a whole other wtf direction. It is Ziggy's inability to explain his own theories concisely and logically that draws the derision. We are all tempted to wander off into our perspective of the world (and I do), but I'm not here to defend, or indeed prosecute anyone. And it's my blog! My critics complain about my anecdotes and personal views, but as I said earlier, other options are available. Bloggers who stick to facts only and forbid new ideas. Why not go read them if that is what you want? Why the futile attempts to change my writing style?
DeleteZiggy has had ample opportunity to capture my attention 15:24, that he fails to do is his fault not mine. He needs to up his ante and cut down on the waffle. He is turning his own audience away.
Don't get me wrong, it may be that Ziggy is a talented and engaging writer, but he is not demonstrating it here, because he is irritating rather than entertaining. Let's stop here for a moment while the 'pros' pass round the smelling salts.
Yes, entertaining. Even scientists, after all these centuries are beginning to see that the more popular they are, they more they are able to spread their knowledge. Welcome to the 21st century, and in the US, a reality TV show president.
Finally, trolls. Yes, I am groaning as I type this. They don't bother me. I don't care enough about them to analyse their motives.
Is Ziggy a troll? Apart from my not caring, he is the terrible voice of Team McCann, as he demonstrates all those unpleasant traits that we, the public, found so off putting in the parents.
I haven't banned Ziggy, last I heard, he had decided he was too good for this place. Whether he comes back to post again or whether he opens his own blog (I think he should) is entirely up to him 15:24.
You say Ziggy wasn't able to explain his theories and wandered off.The theories he came out with seemed easy to follow to me, as were his points about why your theory and the one most have chosen aren't that solid when you look closer at them.Maybe you didn't get that as you claim that you switched off before you'd read them.Maybe you only say that you switched off as that sounds like he wasn't worth reading and you hope your regulars will pick up on that.Dismiss all views that don't agree with yours while still claiming all points of view are welcomed. If anyone really believes that you're being sincere when you claim that, they must be incredibly naive.They probably will dismiss his posts as they enjoy the platform you give them to blow off their steam.And the same stuff will be repeated forever here.
DeleteYou've mentioned Ziggy in blog titles and in countless posts for a year or thereabout.That's an awful lot of attention you're giving to someone not worthy of your attention and whose opinions are so laughable.What's that saying about protesting to much ? You seem far more at ease laying into people that don't think as you do than you are when trying to destroy what they say.It doesn't matter that you come across as a bad tempered harridan as people who come to your page regularly are used to that.But it doesn't seem to support your numerous guesses that don't really mean much if you still don't offer that support and use a similar tactic to undermine arguments against you. Talking about people is old.It isn't clever and isn't that funny.Who really logs into their account to see strangers talking badly about other strangers or calling them names ? It lowers the tone which is, lets face it, quite low on the best of days.Ziggy doesn't seem one for jumping on band wagons. People enjoy reading someone with that mindset.
''Is Ziggy a troll? Apart from my not caring, he is the terrible voice of Team McCann, as he demonstrates all those unpleasant traits that we, the public, found so off putting in the parents. ''
DeleteYes, Rosalinda, we get the message : If you don't slate the McCanns you will be hated and accused of being part of their team or family.All points of view welcomed ? I don't think so somehow. I have yet to see an unpleasant trait displayed by him by looking at his writing.By the way, 'we the public' is made up of millions.Most of whom can think or speak for themselves.Stick to defamation.But please, as Ziggy requested so many times, explain why you - by extension- continue to discredit the police and indirectly accuse them all of being part of 'Team McCann'. After all, they say the same thing ; no proof, no evidence, nothing.Are they trolls ?
Isn't it enough that I publish Ziggy's posts, now you demand I endorse them? lol.
DeleteSo I come across as a bad tempered harridan? Seriously? I can't even remember the last time I lost my temper or even got angry. It certainly wasn't on here, I'm not sure I even think about my blog once I close the lid on my laptop. I don't punch walls or kick beds. I don't have anger issues 17:59, I turn all my failures, all my frustrations, all my sorrows, back in on myself - that's why I am a manic depressive.
I have no idea what your point is with your final remarks, but 'talking about people' is what human beings do! Deh! Have a look at your TV, your newspaper and social media. People talking about other people.
So Ziggy isn't of that mindset eh? OK. He doesn't jump on bandwagons, hmm, possibly because the most popular bandwagon right now is Goncalo Amaral's. He does try to start bandwagons of his own though, so kudos to him for that. I'm all for encouraging new writers, which is why I'm urging him to start his own blog. He already has a group of devoted followers, and you can all say the things you think I am spamming on here. What is he afraid of?
Wow, you had to do quite a few somersaults and back flips there to arrive at me attacking the police 18:05, and it still didn't work, lol.
DeleteI have never accused OG of being involved in a cover up or using the funds provided to have 'beanos' in PDL. And I think the people who throw out those kinds of accusations are the kind of people who would do exactly that in their position.
I happen to think those 30+ homicide officers who were assigned to Operation Grange, and now the few who are left, are acting on behalf of the victim. That is, they are doing their jobs.
I don't know what the police are doing, but my brain doesn't immediately leap to 'they are doing nothing at all'. Being a manic depressive, I am accustomed to keeping myself in check with logic. And that principle applies to everything outside my personal bubble too, including the Madeleine case. It is illogical to think Operation Grange are doing nothing.
Nobody is hated for believing the parents of Madeleine 18:05. I encourage them to post here, all I ask is that they remain civil. Most however do not seem to understand the laws of attraction, if you put out negative vibes, that's what you get in return. If they could put their anger aside, they would get a more positive feedback.
Why not take hate out of your thinking, and just read and respond like a normal person? There really is no need for all this unpleasantness.
Hi Rosalinda,
ReplyDeleteAll that's ever been written about the McCann's guilt or innocence pales in comparison to the first few hours of their daughter's disappearance.
The McCann parents truly busted a gut to prove their innocence.
Desperate to prove that a pretend person - (there was no way in the world it could possibly be them, right?). This person (not the McCanns) was responsible for the kidnapping.
Why did these two rogues decide on this plan? - they had to, because their very lives depended on it.
Who would want to be charged with murdering their own daughter in a foreign land - not too many I would guess.
But phoning relatives and friends in the middle of the night with false cover stories was apparently no problem for the innocent couple.
Contacting the press with a bunch of lies and not searching for their lost daughter is normal behaviour?
How can anyone explain that.
But it doesn't end there - cleaning the apartment floor of bloodstains. Double washing all their clothes to remove DNA that same night.
And,...on that same night concocting a plan of fake abduction with their Tapas bar doctor friends to pretend an abductor HAD actually "taken" their daughter.
But as a cover up it was pretty weak, a placebo for the real sighting by the Irish Smith family of Mr McCann hurrying down the streets of Praia da Luz clutching a young child's body on his way down to the beach.
On this night Mr McCann naturally was very worried, he knew he had been seen by a family of reliable people who clued in that something did not seem quite normal - so he needed a cover story - which by incredible good fortune was provided by one of his liar friends on that same evening, a woman, a Tapas doctor friend who didn't want to be implicated in the debacle herself by the police by the fact that she and her other doctor friends had also left their own children unattended in the rented hotel apartment complex while they caroused the night away in the Tapas bar and might be subject to investigation.
Further, the bizarre nightly printing up of posters of their missing daughter on the holiday resort's copying machine for distribution the following day.
Would normal parents be doing this. Well, the answer is: - if you were intent on creating a cover story, this would be the way to do it.
Meanwhile the world is tiring of the Doctors McCann and their oh-so-humble virtue signalling.
But...the list goes on:
Contacting the most prestigious libel lawyers in Europe on the same night their child went missing would seemingly be odd to most parents of missing children - but not to the McCanns. After all they were trying to help.
Probably more for themselves than for their dead daughter.
Helpful and desperate parents of missing children will assist any police investigation and will answer questions to the nth degree - but apparently not this couple.
And finally destroying all your cell phone records. how is that helpful in finding your missing daughter.
If you want to find out what really happened on that fateful night read Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral's book "The truth of the lie", where he tells it it like it is, and what happened more than 10 years ago with his brilliant analysis.
jc
Hi JC, in a recent crime documentary the Detective exclaimed 'why would the husband of a missing woman lawyer up straight away?'. Indeed.
DeleteWhy would the parents of a missing child not want to help the police unconditionally? Why the urgency for lawyers? I don't think we have ever seen parents of a missing child employ top quality lawyers within hours of their child disappearing.
Parents of a missing child think only about the missing child, not protection for themselves. To them, the very worst has already happened and the see the police as having the same goal as themselves, get the child back. To them, the police are not the enemy, they will hopefully be the heroes.
That's why I don't understand Gerry and Kate's behaviour towards the police on that first night. The nicknames she immediately gave to the first two police officers on the scene, Gerry's demands to speak to someone more senior, etc.
The McCanns thought they could do the job better themselves, so they weren't put out when the PJ shelved their files. Unfortunately, the public did not rush to assist the McCanns as they thought they would. Their arguido status seriously damaged the Fund and their reputations. All those plans Gerry drew up on his white board were in tatters, and they have remained that way ever since. No pop concerts, no sports events, no Elton John hosting an annual Madeleine Day.
They blame Goncalo Amaral as the wrecker of their dreams JC. They don't blame the abductor, Kate publicly forgave him, instead they turned all their hatred towards the detective who had tried to find their daughter. Odd.
Goncalo Amaral just happened to be the detective who picked up the poisoned chalice. It could have been any detective, anywhere in the world. If OG don't provide the result the McCanns and their supporters want, will one or more officers from OG be targeted and vilified as GA was? Will the British media label them as lazy chip scoffers, and pick up on their fashion faux pas?
It would suit you very well if I were to start criticising the police I'm sure. However, I am intelligent enough to understand the perspective of the police. The human side especially.
What I fail to understand is the perspective of those accusing the police of being involved in a cover up. Yes, we have seen police cover ups in the past etc, etc, but is that reason enough to suspect 30+ homicide officers now?
Peter Bleksley:
ReplyDeleteShould the @metpoliceuk investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann be granted more funding? I’ll be discussing this on @GMB around 6.40am tomorrow morning...
https://twitter.com/PeterBleksley/status/1045351118233116674
@PeterBleksley @metpoliceuk @GMB I just can't understand the amount of money that we have spent on a crime committed in another country. Even though it's had lots of hours and money spent on it already. There has to be an extra special reason why the investigation continues.
https://twitter.com/MyeOpinions/status/1045370811794649088
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7367714/madeleine-mccann-missing-case-must-be-solved-met-police-detective/
ReplyDelete'But former counter-terror detective David Videcette warned every lead into the little girl's disappearance needed to be investigated, whatever the cost.
Speaking on Good Morning Britain, the seasoned cop warned: "If she had been abducted, then we need to catch whoever did that because it will happen again.
"However much money we spend on this case, we'll save on the next case if we catch that person and that's where we need to look at."
Mr Videcette added that the success of an investigation could not be based on the cost - adding: "Good investigations take time."'
There is something deeply suspicious about this entire case. I’d guess the answer is glaringly obvious.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/MidAgeSpread/status/1045552970664988672
Ziggy's fame or infamy,depending on your point of view, has travelled far and wide.
ReplyDeleteVerdi has posted a big picture of him on the CMOMM forum.
S/he must be star-struck too.
Do you have a link please?
Delete13:03
DeleteBearing False Witness thread.
Ros doesn't like links to rival forums,especially that one.
I expect Verdi did it to wind Ros up.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you notice he/she did it next to a picture of Kate,which Ros semi jokingly said Ziggy was recently.
Sorry if this is a daft question, but why would someone carry a dead child in their arms through the streets of a holiday resort at night for passers by to see? Surely they would have put the body in a bag or something.
ReplyDelete13:23
DeleteJoe?
The Lion?
Joe (13:23)
DeleteGood question but, then again, if the child was alive, why (for all we know) has ‘Smithman’ never come forward?
NL
The question you ask is valid.
DeleteThe assumption you make afterwards is not.
20:45
DeleteWhat would you have done?
18:59
DeleteThe question is, was there ever a Smithman? Twitter user Isabelle McFadden has claimed to have rang the Smith family and received the following response:"f*ck the McCanns". I don't know if she's being truthful though.
Joe (28 Sept at 23:40)
DeleteI believe the Smiths.
30 January 2008
“He [MS] has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology."
and
“I [MS] would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct.”
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm#p16p4134
As MS doesn’t know for sure (100%) he saw Gerry McCann, I don’t know who ‘Smithman’ is. I just wonder why (for all we know) ‘Smithman’ has never come forward.
NL
Hi NL, always nice to see you :)
DeleteMr. Smith and his family have indeed acted honourably throughout NL, and it must have been extremely difficult given the circus created by Team McCann. Mr. Smith's statement is painfully honest, that is, you can feel the dilemma he was in.
I think it is absolutely shameful, disgusting and should be illegal, that this family have been hounded by Bennett's 'research' forum and conspiraloon Richard Hall. I hope they all face charges of interfering with witnesses during a police investigation.
There is no reason to doubt the evidence of the Smith family, not only are they independent witnesses, but they are normal people! They have never sought publicity and wouldn't in a zillion years involve themselves in a conspiracy to protect a potential murderer. Ie. They are exactly like 99% of us! The imagined scenarios put forward by Bennett are another symptom of his own deranged mind.
One thing is for sure NL. If and when there is any trial, the evidence of the Smith family will be crucial.
I'll just explain something really simple to you Ros, as I doubt your supporters can.
DeleteIf there was a trial,even in Portugal where the 20th or 21st century hasn't occurred yet,The charges of either murder, manslaughter, then hiding the body are considerably grave charges. Given the sheer multitude of silly stories invented by the likes of yourself and other self-proclaimed experts online the trial, and in particular, a jury, would be prejudiced from the outset.A judge would be likely to direct the jury not to consider a guilty or not guilty verdict for murder.He would likely direct them to consider manslaughter at worst and even then would only accept a unanimous verdict rather than a majority.The jury would have it emphasised to them that should they have any reasonable doubt whatsoever then they must arrive at a not guilty verdict.Given that your fading hope, Smith, has never said a number higher than 80% in terms of his own certainty, the time that's elapsed and the time the case has taken to get anywhere, do you think 12 men or women will come to anything even close to 'without reasonable doubt' ? If you do, then you understand even less than I thought.
I can see the pro-Zigger arguments well structured and sensible and i can see the anti-Zigger arguments brief, childish and quite embarrassing.Apart from your own efforts, Ros, which are far too long and show you trying far too hard.It looks like fear.Do you not think your co-'antis' can think for themselves any more ? I can understand that if that's actually the case.They certainly don't seem capable of thinking for themselves about anything.That's why they can't answer questions are get into discussions.Because all they can do is repeat what they've read elsewhere.It isn't their own 'work' .
DeleteWhy would my blogs or replies 'look like fear'? What do I have to fear 03:01?
DeleteI have never in my life told people what to think. Not even when I was teaching, my methods then, as now, are to encourage people to think for themselves. That's why my readers return again and again.
I happen to respect my readers 03:01, I don't patronise them and I don't preach. I have said many times, I have no aspirations to lead or be the boss of anybody, I never have. I believe in the power of the individual, I strive to show people the power they have within themselves, that they don't need to follow others or be entrapped by those with a need to control.
I'm not seeking to control anyone - as if! I share my stage with anyone who has something to say. This is not a one sided forum 03:01, if it were, your reply would not have been published.
Thank you for the explanation 15:39, wow, you really have thought this through.
DeleteThe idea that the publicity surrounding this case will prejudice any future trial is an interest concept. Actually, it's one I always thought the McCanns would pull if they were to end up in Court.
But, this is the 21st century, even in Portugal, and every high profile crime is prejudiced (or not) by widespread publicity. Look at the US, Bill Cosby was this week led away in handcuffs to serve 3 years upwards for his very highly publicised crimes. The Judge didn't make any recommendations to the Jury because the Defendant was famous.
Your predictions as to how a Judge in this case would direct a jury are pure fantasy, and crazily optimistic. As yet, no Judge has seen the case for the prosecution, actually, no-one has.
'My last hope', oh do behave 15:39, I'm not that personally involved, lol. My last hope, is your worst fear. Gerry and Kate went out of their way to keep the Smith family sighting out of the mainstream news. They instead chose to highlight Jane Tanner's sighting, which has now been dismissed by the police.
The idea that the police have dropped or can't use the evidence of the Smith family 11+ years on, is ludicrous. As of Crimewatch 2013 (?)'Smithman' has been their main suspect. Smithman was DCI Redwood's revelation moment, he will be centre stage in any trial.
No T, no Ziggy?
ReplyDeleteNo Ziggy no tea
DeleteAnd no to all these silly one liners, they are irritating me and I'm binning them. One liners only work when they are witty and enlightening, these aren't.
Delete@ Ros
Delete(One liner for you)
Maybe you should be a judge on Comedy Classroom.
Don't know what it is, but I should be! lol. I might say my favourite authors are the Brontes and Dickens, but they are really P.G. Wodehouse and Sue Townsend.
DeleteComedy really is the best medicine. I love 'Paddy' humour, Jewish humour, Gay humour, but mostly I love American humour. I have always felt they were leaps and above us, even since childhood. If I could turn the clock back, I definitely would have tried out as screenwriter in Hollywood. Writers of US sitcoms work in teams, every gag is tested. British comedy seems infantile by comparison.
But back to humour as the best medicine. If you can take the darkest situation and still make people laugh out loud, you can take the sting out of the situation. The Irish are especially good at this.
Having had a batshit crazy Irish mother, my own humour tends to be along the 'Paddy' lines. Instantly recognisable to those with Celtic blood, but just plain offensive to committed anglophiles.
I keep drifting away from the medicinal qualities, lol. When I lost my beloved Dad, I shut myself away in my bedroom for a week, it may have been two, crying, drinking, sleeping and watching Seinfeld and Father Ted back to back. I didn't want company, though one dear friend came immediately to my side (Sue)and allowed me ramble on until I conked out. Forever grateful. Other friends, bless them, gave me that lifeline at the end of the phone. My beloved 'Big Lynn' especially, who drummed into me the importance of getting along the funeral parlour and ensuring my dear old dad left this world with his teeth in and wearing a suit!
Seinfeld has been a lifesaver for me on many occasions. And I was not surprised to hear that others, including people of note, have used 'Seinfeld' to cope with extreme emotional trauma. Apparently, Steven Spielberg watched Seinfield as he filmed Schindler's List, to get through the pain of recreating such horror.
Of course, other sitcoms are available! In the old days, my go to (immediately)films were 'Some Like it Hot' and 'The Odd Couple'. On returning from hospital one time, I remember my older son wheeling next to my bed a small TV, video recorder, and 'The Odd Couple' saying 'I think you'll need this'. Our resident mutt (Barnabus Bubble) manoeuvred himself into a semi circle over the top of my pillow, making a lovely warm arch at the back of my head and neck, and there he was going to stand guard in case I ever disappeared again! Poor little pooch had refused to eat all the time I was away, even when my dad put a picture of me alongside his food bowl! Sons pointed out, that was probably what put him off!
Laughing is a release of emotion. No-one is ashamed or embarrassed to laugh out loud, but if we expressed grief in that very visual way, we would be carted off in a straight jacked. We keep our grief in check, our laughter, we enjoy, even if does make us double up, or trigger giggles.
Certainly, there is a very fine line between respecting grief and saying 'too soon?'. Happily most comedians go ahead with the gag, and say 'too soon?' after. Comedians have a way in which to break barriers, while still staying within 'the rules'. Art, in all its' forms, will always find a way.
You may mock my comedy aspirations 13:29, but to me the greatest comedians are those who can use their own particular artform to convey a message. And the best comedians do. My favourites (at the mo)are the top American talk show hosts, but we have Graham Norton (is he English or Irish?) who cares, he is hilarious.
@ Rosalinda
DeleteIf you're binning one liners, why are these anti-ziggy one liners on show.Are they supposed to be humourous or something ? It's like the four year olds have snuck on to mummy's computer.
Who knows 15:31. More importantly, who cares? Who is pathetic enough to be keeping track?
DeleteRosalinda, Cristobell Hutton29 September 2018 at 15:39
Delete''Who knows ? Who cares ?Who knows 15:31. More importantly, who cares? Who is pathetic enough to be keeping track''
Who knows ? Who cares ? Who's pathetic enough to be keeping track ?
Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton29 September 2018 at 11:28
''And no to all these silly one liners, they are irritating me and I'm binning them. One liners only work when they are witty and enlightening, these aren't.''
Mystery solved.
@ Ros 15:29
DeleteI wasn't mocking your comedy aspirations,I was making the point that humour is subjective.
Ros have you been contacted by the ex Operation Grange detective yet?
ReplyDelete"Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton27 September 2018 at 08:34
ReplyDeleteSo my blog is not worthy of your attention or your presence. Is that you Kate?"
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You have really lost your mind and should up your meds Ros.
Who's making mentally ill comments now?
DeleteYou really need to learn how to cope with mild humorous jibes 23:26, either come out with a witty retort or ignore. Your playground response that I have lost my mind and should up my meds makes you sound petty and hatchet faced.
DeleteKate has shown on many occasions and in many ways that she thinks she is superior to those police detectives who attempted to question her, complaining they were not worthy of her attention.
There you see, now you have made me explain the joke, which has of course sucked all the humour out of it, but at least it is now clear to those who may not have picked upon it.
I wonder if the seemingly continual funding for Grange is because they are looking and waiting for a suitable patsy to die.
ReplyDeleteI think it highly unlikely Operation Grange are playing a game of chance 15:29. Whatever they have done and whatever they are doing, will come under great scrutiny. I am sure ever 't' will be crossed and every 'i' dotted.
Delete@ Ros
DeleteIt could be because of the expected intense scrutiny,that it is taking so long to find a candidate to take the blame.
Dead men tell no tales,but the story has to be watertight that on the balance of probabilities,they did it.
There would no doubt be a big media campaign to convince us it was him too.
There won't be a patsy. A Patsy is chosen by people in high places in order to deflect any blame on their own. A Patsy would have to be presented with a stereotypical 'profile' a la American speciality. That wold come with his friends and family and history.There would lie potential banana skins which could undo 11 years of covering up.All that money spent and all that time wold be down the pan and it wold shift the spotlight on to a whole nest of possible real culprits.The nearest thing to a patsy - or patsies- are the parents themselves. All the involvement of higher UK power has made them look protected and made the need for protection appear as though they must therefore be guilty.The involvement of politicians has made them appear more guilty than the failure of the investigation has . But the intense involvement and endless funding has put the parents in a position that would make them look as though they're biting hands that have fed as well as protected them. Those at the top played a clever game.And who knows, they might have ordered the failure of the forensics as further thanks for them playing patsy unknowingly. I'm with Ziggmund on that.
DeleteAs a follow on from my post yesterday (18:16),a dead patsy dosesn't need to be a man. A woman would provide added shock factor and might be more believable to the masses ,especially if she had a history of mental illness,limited intelligence and was a vagrant or similar with a history difficult to check.
DeleteI think a dead 'mysterious' woman who wanted a child of her own would make a very good patsy.
I don't agree 18:16, with respect of course.
DeleteThe framework of this crime is set in stone. Even watertight, would not be watertight because there is a cast of dozens, if not hundreds, who could change their stories or just spill the beans. Let's call it the human factor.
As anyone who has played Cluedo will know, putting Colonel Mustard in the library with a hatchet will not necessarily win you the game. The better analogy is a jigsaw puzzle. If every piece doesn't fit exactly, the puzzle will buckle and you discover cheating won't work.
This case is the equivalent of one of those 5,000 or even 10,000 piece puzzles, with lots of sky blue and greenery. It has been attempted by many with crude ill fitting pieces, but the only one who has succeeded is Goncalo Amaral.
If a deceased Patsy were ever an option, he would have been used years ago to close the case down without the necessity for biannual financial top ups. The investigation also, would not have opened with a media fanfare. Cover ups that work are the ones we don't know about.
Ros 30 Sept 13.57
DeleteI may be wrong but GM's latest shenanigans of feigning "mental health issues" smacks of desperation to me. Perhaps he knows that the walls are closing in and that SY have done all they need to do and are handing the case over to Portugal to proceed with, after all it is a Portuguese case not British.
The McCanns' going to the ECHR or whatever it is seemed to be a delaying tactic as everything they do has been a delaying tactic for the past 11 years, to put off the inevitable but perhaps the inevitable has now arrived and it's time to face the consequences.
It's also interesting that the DM will not publish any adverse comments about the McCanns on GM's latest "account of the truth". I've tried three times to comment and they won't print anything that doesn't go with the "abduction" story. It could be that only comments going with the abduction will be allowed as not to prejudice a future trial, at least the papers can't be blamed for turning people against the McCanns when they will only print nice comments about then.
In GM's radio interview he seems to be in panic mode and has completely gone "off script" and has contradicted things that were said many years ago in their statements and in video interviews. He seems to be trying to cover his own backside but seems to be digging himself in deeper and deeper.
Any good prosecution lawyer would tear to shreds everything they've said over the past 11 years to show how conniving and underhand they are.
Or perhaps I'm just clutching at straws hoping for Madeleine's sake that this farce will come to a close and the people responsible for her fate are brought to book.
@ Anonymous30 September 2018 at 14:29
Delete"I may be wrong"
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Yes - reading the rest of your speculative comment - yes you are wrong.
Anon 30 Sept 16.33
DeleteAnd you now that because...... Please inform us if you know something, we are all ears and would like to know the facts.
Thank you for your post 14:29. I tried to listen to Gerry's radio interview earlier on, but it made me feel very uncomfortable. He has indeed suffered a very painful loss, but his description of how he coped with that loss on the night came across as very disingenuous, and I am being kind. He spoke about the cold and the wind, yet he was still able to lie down and rest knowing his child was out there. That I find jaw dropping.
DeleteAll very sad, but the lying has made it so much worse.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/madeleine-mccann-search-missing-moment-realised-missing-investigation-portugal-a8561481.html#comments
ReplyDeleteFrom open comments:
Funny how there is no comment section,on the sun’s story, about how the McCann's might lose what's left of the fund to the Portuguese detective. The article which was published on the 18th of September 2018,even goes on to call him a disgraced detective! He won the previous case and had one overturned! How is he disgraced?! It should be the McCann's who are disgraced
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Why is this news? This is a tragic event that happened over ten years ago, but tragic events happen to children every day all over the world. What is the point in publishing the McCanns thoughts and feelings of guilt and distress at this point? There is nothing particular about this case that isn’t the same for any parent losing a child. Frankly, reporting this now appears gratuitous and also calls into question Gerry McCanns motives for yet another press interview at this point.