Sunday, 18 June 2017


Unfortunately, such is the nature of Public Inquiries, we don't get to shout 'whitewash' until it's all over.  In the meanwhile, we are all told to shut up and let them get on with it.  It is a government's most effective tool to remove a controversial issue from the public arena and a way in which to avoid awkward questions that might incriminate them.  I don't claim to know much about Public Inquiries, but from my own memory of them, they are usually set up by an incumbent government and usually end with the incumbent government clearing itself of all liability at some time in the future when the world has moved on. 

We all witnessed the speed at which Grenfell turned into a towering inferno, we all know that the tenants fears were ignored by their management agency and the Local Authority.  Theresa May's Chief of Staff (voted OUT by the public), was the former Housing Minister who not only sat on the recommendations of the Coroner for a previous tower block fire, but along with all of his colleagues (mostly landlords) voted against legislation to make homes fit for human habitation. 

Let there be no doubt, this massacre, was the result of GREED, pure and simple.  Who opted for the £2 cheaper, flammable panels?  And who approved them?  Who was responsible for discarding Building Regulations in order to increase profit?  We might not know names at the moment, but we do know a Tory housing management team, a Tory Local Authority, and a Tory Government created all the conditions for a major disaster.   In a nutshell, they put profit above human life

There is every reason to fear Theresa May's Public Inquiry will be a cover up and her assurance that the Inquiry will report to HER directly, isn't helping.  What she really wants is the time and breathing space to create a false narrative, one in which the blame will eventually be placed on the 'feckless' tenants one way or another, probably culminating in a smoking ban in all social housing.   The work to change the narrative has already begun with the sister of Boris Johnson claiming the PM is just as much a victim as those who died in the fire, together with a sly dig at the Fire Brigade - they approved the works she said.  If her little chat with LBC was approved by Theresa May, then it's clear there is no remorse, and she is looking for a scapegoat.   

The PM weeps only for herself.  She found it so easy to make difficult decisions that she boasted about it.  She revelled in her persona of Iron Lady mark II and was proud of her reputation as a 'bloody difficult woman'.  She slashed her way through all the public services designed to protect society's most vulnerable without so much as a flinch.  There's 'no magic money tree' she told a nurse on BBQT, who's take home hasn't changed since 2009.  We must offer immediate financial aid to those Tory colleagues who lost their seats, she said days later without any sense of her own hypocrisy. 

Difficult decisions that kill numbers and statistics are easy for Theresa May, she could press that nuclear button without a moment's hesitation.  So too she can take thousands off benefits because mental health problems are not a medical disability. She has no problem with children going hungry, people sleeping on the streets or being charged exorbitant rent for properties not fit for human habitation. Theresa May is crumbling now because every evil decision she ever made is coming back to haunt her.  She can't reach out to those suffering directly from her difficult decisions, because (finally) she is ridden with guilt. Up until now, she has been able to view all those lives she has wrecked as collateral damage, the price SHE is willing to pay to protect the wealthiest in society.  Those Landlords and Employers who guffawed at the sweeping away of tenants and employees right and who look forward to tearing up the rulings from the European Court of Human Rights.

Now Theresa May and her Government of ex public schoolboys who are proud members of a Club that has burning a £50 note in front of a homeless person as an initiation ceremony, will be held to account for the grubby scams that led to this manmade humanitarian disaster.  The concrete tower blocks filled with social housing tenants spoiled the view of the wealthy tenants in the surrounding areas.  There is little to dispute that the refurbishment was cosmetic, nothing to do with the concerns of those who lived there and more to do with house prices. 

A Public Inquiry will allow Theresa May et all, to completely avoid the question of who is to blame.  She will let us know in 3/4 years time when the Inquiry is concluded.  Meanwhile those Councils opting for Contractors who use cheaper flammable materials in their multi million pound social housing refurbishments can carry on.  They will continue to pass their planning applications and sign off their Building Certificates, because in the Tories' sweeping away of regulations, pretty much anything goes as long as it is profitable.  We have entered a new era where we can expect a Trump Tower in every town and village. 

The current 'we won't know until the end of the Inquiry' simply won't do.  In the richest borough of London, hundreds of people, were burned to death in front of the eyes of the world.  We ALL saw those cladding panels go up like cinder, there is no room for doubt or 'wait and see'.  And what was going on with the internal doors?  I had a friend who lived in tower block in New Cross.  She was on one of the top floors, but I always felt 'as safe as houses' within her home.  Her front door was at least 6 inches thick, and completely impenetrable by man, beast or fire.  At one time, there was a fire 3 floors below her - the flat was completely burned out, but my friend's biggest grievance was the soot on her curtains! 

To those marching I would say, make your demands absolutely clear.  In my opinion, every borough in the UK should be tearing down the plastic they wrapped around their previously safe tower blocks now.  If I were a resident in a block with the same cladding, I would immediately buy a fire extinguisher (though the Councils should issue them), and I would keep those death trap panels permanently soaked, because sure as eggs is eggs, the arguments over who pays for the work could drag the issue on for months or even years.  Some no doubt, will already be suggesting upping the rents to pay for it.

To those fighting for justice for the Grenfell Tower victims, get your demands straight and get organised!  Between you, you probably have a good idea of how many people are unaccounted for.  Use social media to get the truth out there.  There are no official statistics from 'the establishment' - not knowing how many survived, and who survived, adds to the fear and speculation.   

as to how many died.  I personally think the playing down of the numbers dead, will be among the scandals revealed when the Inquiry eventually ends and no-one cares anyone.  That's why the public should be informed now.  There is a real battle between fake news and real news at the moment, and the fake stuff is losing.  Everyone has iphones these days, any attempts by this tory government to put the blame on the poor guy with the dodgy fridge or those smoking weed is dead in the water.  The fire spread because the Tory Council wrapped the social housing in flammable plastic to make the view more aesthetically pleasing to their voters.  In 4 years time they will say the idea is absurd, so let's remember it now, before it gets buried. 

*   How many people are missing?  This figure seems to be absent from all media reports.  As an onlooker, the nearest I have heard to a 'figure' is the 172 live calls to emergency services, where the traumatised responders had to tell callers to stay in their  flats and the equally traumatised fireman had to accept they couldn't rescue them. 

*   It is imperative that those who survived Grenfell Tower be rehoused within the same postcode.  Those marching right now have a voice, and that voice must be used to prevent social engineering which is designed to rid affluent areas of those who would lower property prices by their presence.  It IS a class issue, begun with the bedroom tax, and pursued with a war on the indigenous Londoners not in the  5 figure earning bracket.  Remember the end goal of this ideology, is gated communities and tent cities.

*   At the moment emotions are high - ergo, this is the time in which to make demands that WILL be met.  Transparency would be a good place to start.  If the 'Inquiry' for example, should start to wander off into the realms of tenants' anti social behaviour and they brought this on themselves - the tenants should be allowed to say, 'wtf the you lying bastards' and it should be annotated alongside the expert opinion.   

Theresa May is right in that lessons need to be learned, what she hasn't grasped is the fact that it is she who needs to learn them. 


  1. Couldn't agree more. This is unfortunate timing for the PM ( Praying Mantis) and her entourage of evil. Now she finds her and her party on a high wire without a net. I don't fancy backing her to get to the other side this time.

    I agree that greed is a big part of the cause.I think you can add apathy,arrogance and neglect. The tower wasn't housing the well-t-do or the better off after all. It was a tower full of what Tories refer to in whispers as 'plebs'. They didn't matter, so their wants, needs or concerns didn't matter. You'll never see Dolphin Square facing problems like it.The very thought....

    With regard to public inquiries, they're merely public announcements to quell the rising tide of dissent. Tories only do the real work covertly.We never hear what's's none of our business in this democracy. They don't serve us, they serve them. The Big Brother system's been in place for a long time now. How will they get away with it? How will they keep it dark and behind locked doors ? easily. As usual, all we need to do is see what America have already done. Their criminals sing from the same hymn sheet as ours( see Philip Zelkow / 9/11 /shaping public consciousness). They took the Nazi model and put it in place gradually.So did we.Have you seen the sheer size of The Patriot Act and the volume of Zionist authors that contributed to it ? Yet it was off the press a month after the towers fell.Bollocks.

    ''Boris Johnson claiming the PM is just as much a victim as those who died in the fire''

    That sounds about right for that privileged, overweight throwback. Elitist bastard.

    Theresa May didn't make reference to Johnson's wanting to cut the fire service did she. Science is already out there. The cladding was an accelerant and dangers and concerns had been brought to the attention of the relevant bodies more than once.She and her Nazi party can't un-print that.

    In my opinion, we are living under a vile dictatorship. It's veil of Democracy is becoming thinner by the day.Hitler's Germany made big changes fast and subtlety was never on his agenda.So he's deemed a 'nutcase'.That a democracy can do the same but stagger it over generations paints the picture of the SS changing strategies, not ideologies. Why don't the poor and disabled matter any more. Why don't they have a voice ( they're never listened to so they may as well be deaf and dumb). Why are 'inquiries' kept secret ?Because that's what Big Brother says-that's why.If a law states otherwise-simple, change that law.If it breaches human rights-take them away( Cameron , Thatcher ). Taking away our rights and voices is more damaging to us than the gun -control desire of the elite. Only a minority have guns, and only a minority of that minority use them. But we all have a voice and we all should be heard.They're are real arms. That's why we have to share our innermost on or offline with Big Brother ; the Orwellian 'thought police'.

    I'm posting a few links I hope people her take the time to look at.And those who dwell on social networks should post them there. it's evidence of Nazi UK, fake media ( not fake news) and how successive dictators have made changes that many aren't aware of.

    Spread the word.

    1. early hours Monday..

      well well well..would you believe 'incident'in London with a van( another one) and knives( more) and Muslims( this time on the receiving end). What timing for a distraction. Another opportunity for our PM to articulate some words written for her that imitate sympathy and empathy as the country is assessing the depths of her callousness and breadth of her incompetence.

      The good news is-no deaths. So it can't be a terrorist attack( the election's over).It also means there was no need to kill the perps. Maybe it's another problem /reaction/solution game. Martial law preparations as the great unwashed are marching against the politicians ?

      Nahh..coincidence surely..

    2. Ooo scintillatin' sizzlin' steamin'
      Honey those hot pants got me screamin'
      Supercalifragiwhata outfit you got on
      Super vixen ooo foxy
      Studball hunky baby rock me
      Supercalihalitosis ooo that outfit's the absolute mostest

      Your change of attire, tights to hot pants, has set you on fire, Ziggmund. Whether it is or isn’t the weather, you talk good AFAIC.

      May is so lucky to have you in sizzlin' steamin' June.

      (No impropriety intended)


  2. The only reason the cladding was put on Grenfell was to meet green climate targets under the Climate Change Act (see Christopher Booker in yesterday's Sunday Telegraph). Moreover the type of cladding that could be erected was governed by E.U. regulations, imposed on us. So roll on Brexit and let's reconsider all the 'green' nonsense that gave us, for example, the promotion of diesel over petrol, now recognised to have been a disastrous decision. We also need to examine why the fire service ever approved Grenfell as 'safe' and also why the fire service effectively killed so many residents by telling them to stay in their flats.

    1. Kensington and Chelsea may have given a nod to climate change targets, but there is more than enough evidence to show the refurbishment was primarily aesthetic. You can't blame the Greens.

      As for the EU demanding the UK wrap their tower blocks in flammable plastic, I don't think so, but do feel free to produce the EU regulation that you say requires these changes. I would add, I get a sense the greedy tories will from now on blame all their scams on 'old' EU rules. Pathetic, and fooling no-one.

      Finally, your nastiest allegations against the Fire service - are you a relative of Boris? The Boris who shut 10 fire stations, cut the numbers of fire crew and stripped them of their powers to enforce safety regulations.

      Your cruellest accusation, that the fire service 'effectively killed so many residents by telling them to stay in their flats' sounds like the desperate rantings of K&C Housing Officer. The 'stay in your flat' policy is used in apartment blocks, not only in the UK but throughout the world. And for good reason. Tower blocks are (or should be) built to contain fires within the compartmentalised units - and in fairness, this policy has worked for decades. The fire services arrived at a scene they had never faced before and they went over and above in their efforts to save people. I urge you to read and watch the factual accounts from the fire officers who went into Grenfell Tower. Those men and women are heroes, and sadly, many are now devastated that they couldn't do more. That you would attempt to put the blame for this tragedy on the rescuers who went into that burning building risking their lives over and over again is beyond callous. And by the way, with millions of witnesses worldwide, shifting the blame onto the Fire Brigade won't work either.

  3. With a number of recent "public inquiries" proven to be hogwash the following blog is well worth a read:

    ".....The British establishment has a few trusted get-out-of-jail cards it plays every time the seething, endemic, boiling corruption and unaccountability of British society erupts above the cosmetic surface, and something-must-be-done!  For example, “announce a public inquiry”. With that trusty approach, in scandals like Bloody Sunday, Hillsborough, Stephen Lawrence – the culpable individuals and the stagnant system know they can fend-off exposure of the truth until the 2nd, 3rd or 4th public inquiry – after it became clear the 1st was a whitewash & PR job. You know? Until two or three decades later – when the real villains are dead – like Jimmy Savile – or the corrupt public officials are safely drawing their immense pensions.

    Calling for a public inquiry is the British establishment’s all-purpose escape route; it is parachute, PR-strategy, shield and insurance-policy – all rolled into one. It gives ‘cover’ – it provides time – and breathing-space – whilst the shredders hum, the excuses dreamed-up, the scapegoats unidentified, the script-flipped and the diversionary counter-attacks manufactured.

    And who cares if it’s all bullshit?

    When the 1st public inquiry is exposed as crap – after another ten years of campaigning by hardy victims who refused to accept the nonsense – those who were paid to do the “inquiring” will, in turn, have their excuses just like those they were “inquiring” into, and, anyway, the big fat cheques will have long-since been cashed in exchange for briefs fulfilled.

    But for the traditional British public inquiry to fulfil its divert-distract-and-cover-up function, one or two conditions precedent have to prevail. For example, we have to have the historic cap-doffing, forelock-tugging deference to men & women in silly costumes, with absurd titles and Eaton & Cheltenham accents. When Sir Lady Lord Baronet 27th Earl of Trustfundshire Dame Oxbridge QC, Thane of Lloyds and Groom of the Remembrancer’s Stool, O.B.E is appointed, by those to be inquired into, we have to sink to our knees in gratitude when they address us in their BBC-plausible voice and assure us they really, really do have the serious and genuine interests of us scummy proles upmost in their minds and not those of their fellow multi-millionaires who appointed them and who they’ll be chatting to in a north London lawyer’s club next week.

    But does that culture of deference exist anymore? Well – perhaps a little, but it’s oh so diminished.  The traditional power elites are viewed with increasing scepticism across Britain, and even, surprisingly, in Jersey. It’s increasingly obvious that 500 pages of diversionary flim-flam generated via another few million quid of public money thrown into Bedford Row won’t work as it used to – like some kind of sleeping-gas – that would tranquilise and pacify everyone for another five years, before they started to wake up to the fact they’d  been conned.

    But the Jersey public inquiry into decades of concealed child-abuse faces an even bigger problem than that loss of unthinking deference.

    Read the rest at

    1. Many thanks for that interesting read Sir William of err, lol. I was half expecting a bit of backlash with this blog for my lack of faith in Public Inquiries, so it was good to see others feel the same.

      I applaud every point made by the above author, and add the Chilcott Inquiry and Leverson. Chilcott culminated in a tearful address to the nation from Tony Blair when all was forgiven. With Leverson, I'm delighted things continue much as they ever did, but again it reveals Public Inquiries are a farce.

      Again, many thanks Sir William.

    2. Arise Sir William of Fondleboys............19 June 2017 at 10:51

      Many thanks for your post and the link.

      Comrade Mao

    3. Until I read that it had never occurred to me that a public inquiry *could* be operated as a PR exercise.

      That the authorities can achieve this in plain sight raises similar questions about the prosecution of a few "troublemakers" in the British Isles.

      The author of that blog posting was the HEALTH MINISTER on the British Island of Jersey. A post from which he was SACKED for raising the alarm about ongoing child abuse in Jersey.

      Everything he said is now being proven correct but the £23million  public inquiry report has now been delayed twice.
      The report is now due on 3rd July 2017
      There is speculation that the latest delay in publication was done to allow the Queen's Appointed Parlimentry leader and chief judge to collect his knighthood before the "splatter" from the PR led report when it is finally released.
      (*Sir* William Bailhache was knighted a couple of days ago in the Queen's Birthday Honours list - like his Paedo protecting  brother before him)

      Jersey's chief judge appears to have been instrumental in the non-prosecution of some of the worst alleged child pimps, rapists and torturers on the island:

      Unbelievably the supposed "public inquiry" actively excluded the above mentioned Health Minister who blew the whistle. The CoI denied him legal representations unless he would give away his rights by signing their protocols.

      Legal representation was essential because Health Minister Syvret has already been a political prisoner TWICE on the British Island of Jersey.

      This affects us all because Jersey is a microcosm by which the rest of the UK can be understood.

  4. Ros.
    A Public Enquiry is no use whatsoever.
    Theresa May has also said that the people directing the Enquiry need to report directly to HER !
    Why ?
    Why is she so keen for this Enquiry?
    What is She trying to hide ?
    She who ' lost' many relevant files pertaining to the Paedophile enquiry at Westminster.
    She cannot be trusted.

    What is needed is a Public Inquest, the people need a voice.
    It's much harder to 'cover up' in an Inquest.
    It's the very least that these people deserve.
    Haven't they suffered enough ?
    Their families and friends cremated alive !

    Answers need to be found and found fast.
    A summer of discontent looms.

  5. The knives are out for May.
    An embittered Philip Hammond is doing the rounds in the Media, telling anyone who will listen, that the cladding used was banned here in the UK !

  6. "There are no official statistics from 'the establishment' - not knowing how many survived, and who survived, adds to the fear and speculation as to how many died. I personally think the playing down of the numbers dead, will be among the scandals revealed when the Inquiry eventually ends and no-one cares anyone."

    Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy. You see it everywhere, Ros. Actually it's quite simple - just listen to the firemen. You can't count what you can't count.

    1. I actually live by the philosophy of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid), so you are way off with your conspiracy nonsense. In the case of Grenfell, like millions of others, I am going by why I can see.

  7. It WAS banned, and it WAS brought to the attention of the people who passed it previously.

    As for public inquiries..what does it mean in reality-'public inquiry'

    It's first function is to try to sell the idea that your Government cares.That's why they're announced pdq. It's second function is to buy time. This time allows those conducting it to see what they can do in terms of damage limitation to themselves, how much evidence is already 'out there' and how much can be changed, edited or 'lost'.It should be called the 'Leon Brittain technique'. The Tories are past masters in matters of concealment.

    Theresa May is on red alert now as her fellow reptiles prop her up. They want her gone but can't push her because it's an admission of defeat by the people.She's trying to prove that she has credibility as a politician and a PM( no and no), that she's as strong( vicious) as Thatcher while simultaneously trying to display that she has a heart and a soul to the masses who have exposed her. It's an impossible dream.Then, just as they take their first steps to achieving some kind of recovery, this happens and they're exposed again.Now we have some headcase white van man in Islington ( Corbyn's constituency)losing the plot and driving into Muslims. Someone pass the 'terror alert' script to her.It's underneath the 'my thoughts go out to' files..



    "7. Finally, there can be both a public inquiry and an inquest, if for any reason the public inquiry does not deal with all issues of relevance to the purposes of an inquest: this has happened in some cases in the past (e.g Hillsborough, Zeebrugge, Ladbroke Grove rail crash)."

  9. Anonymous19 June 2017 at 16:18

    ''I personally think the playing down of the numbers dead, will be among the scandals revealed when the Inquiry eventually ends and no-one cares ''

    ''Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy. You see it everywhere, Ros''

    Whenever an event occurs, be it some over-hyped 'terror' alert, or the tower going up in flames after years of neglect and ignored requests from the tenants to have safety measures improved, the MSM go into overdrive. Eye witnesses who can turn their mobile phones off for 5 minutes are interviewed and they go into overdrive too. So unreliable witness testimony meets desperate newshounds. The results are always the same.Unreliable and hysterical.

    In this case, all that can be inferred by common sense( actually looking at the images of the building) is that the majority of tenants still inside are now dead. If concerns about the safety hadn't been ignored ( see my post a couple of posts above), if the Lord Mayor / Tory politician hadn't shouted down members of the public for his cutting of emergency services, and the owners of the property had owned up about being a Limited Company while claiming to be a non-profit organisation then that looks like a conspiracy to deceive to me.It's too easy and too lazy to call anyone who questions the official line a 'conspiraloon' or whatever hilarious label is trending at the time. The list of 'official' stories that have turned out to be a crock of shit is far too long now to let any more go without any questioning. Conspiracy IS everywhere, now and behind us, and that won't change. I find it ironic that the massed ranks who join the chorus that calls conspiracy theorists 'tin foil hat nutters' usually say they don't trust politicians because they're all the same-liars and deceivers. And why do they get that label ?

    The numbers will be out soon enough.The Government didn't have an actual hand in this event for once. That doesn't mean their hands are free of blood. They could have had a hand in making the tower safe as the tenants had requested.But Limited Companies don't like that kind of expense. When surviving friends and family members confirm that they lost somebody in the fire, it's simple maths after that. The MSM will carry the bulk of the blame for the earlier guesses. But, it's hard to see how any reporter at that scene could view it and talk down the numbers unless they were drunk as newts or being told to minimise the disaster for the time being. Yes, that's when the damage limitation began. No other logical explanation is feasible. Never let common sense get in the way of an official narrative.

    1. "When surviving friends and family members confirm that they lost somebody in the fire, it's simple maths after that"

      Missing, not dead. The former may be different to the latter. We know the former, but not the latter, yet. The latter demands proof. eg Madeleine McCann

  10. What do you mean by "transparent" Ros?

  11. Why are you always 4 or 5 days late with you just musing blog Ros?

    1. I write when in the mood for writing 21:18, what can I say? I state quite clearly that I muse. News and factual information is available all over the internet from reporters who's job it is to keep us up to date and those are the ones I turn to.

      With the Madeleine case, it is a subject that I know inside out and upside down - it is a case where I feel obliged to comment because the MSM continue to publish misinformation.

      With major tragedies, I suffer from my emotions - I am bipolar, everything is extreme, anyone who has ever suffered from depression may recognise that. I have to calm down, gather my thoughts and try to refocus. Sometimes it takes a few days.

  12. Ros says in her first paragraph: "I don't claim to know much about Public Inquiries"

    But then how much did you go on to say?

  13. "Wtf you lying bastards" it was said by Liverpool supporters for nearly 30 years

  14. It was a tragic tragic accident. I am sure that nobody who was involved in the events that lead to the tragic accident ever said "oh yeah we will save a few pounds - let them burn"

    1. @22:55

      It was a preventable accident.

    2. Tragic accident or corporate manslaughter 22:55? Tragic accident might apply if those who put up the cladding and those who approved it did not know of it's dangers. Given that the dangers of covering a tall building with flammable plastic was GENERAL knowledge, together with all the warnings the Council received, they cannot plead ignorance.

      They probably didn't say 'let them burn', but it was a risk they were prepared to take in order to increase their profits. Ergo, it was not an 'accident', it was a probability, and therefore murder.

  15. Ros says: "To those marching I would say, make your demands absolutely clear"

    Unless of course you are the DUP in which case you are not welcome.

    1. 23:09. I was addressing those marching for justice for the victims of Grenfell Tower - I know the DUP like marching, but that's only if it involves orange sashes and intimidating Catholics. How on earth did you confuse the two? Perhaps a little more tonic in it.

  16. ZiggySawdust wrote on 18 June 2017 at 22:31

    "Couldn't agree more. This is unfortunate timing for the PM ( Praying Mantis) and her entourage of evil."

    "In my opinion, we are living under a vile dictatorship"

    "They [America] took the Nazi model and put it in place gradually. So did we. Have you seen the sheer size of The Patriot Act and the volume of Zionist authors that contributed to it ?"

    These statements suggest just another nutter. I'll know to skip them in future.

  17. Anonymous19 June 2017 at 23:28

    ''These statements suggest just another nutter. I'll know to skip them in future.''

    Was that intended to be 'cutting' ? Save your nails. Do some research.

    Anonymous19 June 2017 at 21:10

    ''The latter demands proof. eg Madeleine McCann''

    I think, given the condition of the burnt out shell that was a tower block of flats last week, it's safe to say that not many tenants will be officially considered 'missing persons'

    Anonymous19 June 2017 at 22:55

    ''I am sure that nobody who was involved in the events that lead to the tragic accident ever said "oh yeah we will save a few pounds - let them burn"

    That isn't the point.The point is more about what was said when concerns about safety were voiced to them a long time before this happened. If they decided to think it wasn't important based on guesswork('' it's not like the place could burn down now is it?'')then it's negligent.I'd call it corporate manslaughter because they had fair warnings. Their other tower in the same borough had a 27th floor flat burnt to a shell months before. That didn't move them either.

  18. Arise Sir William of Fondleboys............19 June 2017 at 16:06

    Fondleboys- a fine school, i hear tell...;-)

    That's the thing with announcements.The announcement itself is the PR exercise.The actual inquiry is behind closed doors where a lot of damage limitation, protection of the 'important', creative editing and a few brown envelopes can be stuffed prior to asking valuable witnesses to 'reconsider'. In plain sight is the announcements via the MSM about progress or why there isn't any.It's PR and self preservation . Look at all the 'delays' in the inquiry into Leon Brittan and his fellow 'party revellers' connected to Elm Guest House.In the end they kept it simple and 'lost' what was a huge and incriminating dossier containing the identities of some very important people who shared a penchant for small boys and sadistic sex with them.They even got caught trying to slide Butler-Sloss into the chair until it was pointed out online that she was the sister of Lord Havers, who had abused his position to threaten the press and protect politician predators in the 1980s.

    These creatures spend the majority of their time behind closed doors in their various little parochial 'clubs' and secret societies and only surface to sell the public as much BS as they can when need be.

    Jersey may well be self-governing, but it's still part of ( Her Majesty's) UK . And that's the head of the beast.Ted Heath got away with ( dare I say it ?)..and Tory asset and friend of the Royals, Savile, was a frequent visitor of the island.

    There are less hiding places for these psychopaths now. People are onto it.Voices are speaking.Finally, the incessant feeding of filthy(allegedly) celebrities to keep the public happy is reaching an end. Celebrities don't shape our lives or our world according to their own needs. They're merely egotistical camera chasers who desire the worship of people with too much time on their hands but none of it used to think.Royals and politicians are a different matter. We live by their laws. We go to jail for not paying taxes and we go to jail if we hurt children.That's fine.But they can place themselves above those laws.It suggests that their private book of rules and laws read quite differently to ours.In our world, child abuse and murder are punishable by law.They're illegal.They're wrong in the eyes of the law and whichever God you can quote.It begs the question of what's right and wrong in their enclosed world and which God they favour in order to maintain their 'ways' as acceptable.

  19. ZiggySawdust wrote on20 June 2017 at 15:57

    "I think, given the condition of the burnt out shell that was a tower block of flats last week, it's safe to say that not many tenants will be officially considered 'missing persons'"

    1. The missing people may not have been in the building.
    2. There may have been other people in the building which the survivors and authorities are unaware of.

    Only a body count will reliably determine the death toll.

    1. I think the point i was making was pretty clear without having to be too pedantic. If you see a tower block with 27 floors spitting out flames as most of the outside of the building is on fire at the same time it's ridiculous to look at it, as viewers do too, and come out with statements such as 'it's estimated that up to 17 people are dead''. Beefing that up to 27 an hour later isn't any better. It supposes that either every floor houses a single occupant, or three quarters of them were unoccupied.It would be more rational to use common sense and use statements that include 'as yet unknown' or 'impossible to say this early''. I question the reason that any numbers were speculated and why they were so low so early.Did anyone watching that outside broadcast see that and not say ''are you f***g kidding?''

  20. There will be a list of tenants/owner occupiers as rents, council tax, utilities etc. would have to be paid. This list can be checked against the named people who escaped, the difference being the number of potential missing/dead people.
    The lack of ID can be helped by council records, census files, TV licence authorities, DVLA, HMRC, schools, doctors, dentists etc. Nobody expects tenants to flee a fire clutching their documents but neither should we take people at their word or we may find 500 people claiming they lived there.
    Also I, like most people pay for house insurance, let's hope the tenants in this building also invested in this.
    There isn't enough available housing in this area to accommodate all of these people and it can not be conjured up out of thin air so it's pointless to demand that they all be rehoused in this area. Let's have a common sense approach to this tragedy.

    1. Sixty-eight social housing flats in Kensington, London, are to be made available to survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire, the government has said.

      The one, two and three-bedroom flats are located in two blocks that stand alongside a large luxury development, where private homes go for up to £8.5m.

  21. The Queen, in her pre-Ascot speech was her trademark sensitive self today. Following her thinly veiled Tory manifesto, which basically stole Jeremy Corbyn's popular and rational ideas in the hope his popularity can be transferred to her little shop of horrors she knows and loves as her (Tory) Government; a cynical attempt to steal credibility for them. She was kind enough to include, as a footnote, mentioning this tragedy along with Jeremy Corbyn's promise of social housing ( which he made before the tragedy, and not because of it).She fitted it in close to her threat-sorry, I mean promise, to make the UK the safest place to be online. And you know how we make things and people 'safe' don't you. We surround it with police.So Brown, Blair , Cameron, May , Milliband and the rest who were in a state of panic 9 years ago can now stop, block or edit free thinking and expression. This, despite her earlier promise of protecting human rights. Frau Elizabeth in full and predictable flow.

    1. You do realise her sole contribution to the Queen's Speech is to read it out?

  22. Poisoned...

    ''Fire toxicity experts have told Sky News the insulation boards installed during a refurbishment of the tower produce the deadly gas when they burn, and their positioning meant every flat could have been filled with enough gas to kill those inside.''

    ''The gas could have incapacitated some residents, but establishing its role in the cause of death may be impossible because of the condition of the victims.''

    ''Professor Hull co-authored a peer-reviewed study in 2011 into the fire toxicity of six insulation materials which was published in the Energy & Building journal. The study established that PIR was the most toxic.''

    Professor Hull said the warnings in his report should have been heeded.

    Six years ago..that's a long time to ignore anything...

  23. Anonymous21 June 2017 at 20:33

    ''Sixty-eight social housing flats in Kensington, London, are to be made available to survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire, the government has said''

    ''The one, two and three-bedroom flats are located in two blocks that stand alongside a large luxury development, where private homes go for up to £8.5m''

    Now we know what it takes for council tenants to avoid the bottom of the barrel at the hands of a Tory government; A horrendous tragedy, a Prime Minister begging to be liked and a lot of ministers in a state of panic as they try everything they can to limit the damage to them and their friends and achieve any positive PR they can . I wonder how come these properties were 'vacant' in the first place considering the housing crisis the Tories claim to acknowledge. It's magic. They can 'find' what and who they need when they need like a magician can find a rabbit in a hat.

    1. @ ziggy 14:51 " I wonder how come these properties were 'vacant' in the first place"

      It is new social housing nearing completion.

    2. @08:35


  24. "Police have said they are considering manslaughter charges in relation to the deadly Grenfell Tower blaze as they revealed that the insulation and cladding tiles at the building failed safety tests.

    Det Supt Fiona McCormack, who is overseeing the investigation, said on Friday that officers had established the initial cause of the fire was a fridge-freezer and that it was not started deliberately.

    She said they were trying to get to the bottom of why the fire grew so quickly and tests had pointed towards the cladding using aluminium composite tiles and the insulation behind it. Investigators will now seek to establish whether the use of these materials was illegal.

    McCormack said: “Preliminary tests show the insulation samples collected from Grenfell Tower combusted soon after the tests started. The initial test on the cladding tiles also failed the safety tests.”

    She added that the insulation proved “more flammable than the cladding”. McCormack said police would investigate how the tiles were installed.

    “We will identify and investigate any criminal offence and, of course, given the deaths of so many people, we are considering manslaughter, as well as criminal offences and breaches of legislation and regulations,” she said.

    McCormack said documents and materials had been seized from a number of organisations but no one had been questioned yet as it was too early in the investigation.

    She said: “We are looking at every criminal offence from manslaughter onwards, we are looking at every health and safety and fire safety offences and we are reviewing every company at the moment involved in the building and refurbishment of Grenfell Tower.” "

    1. At least there fudging over the use of the word manslaughter. But where do you begin, and how do you apportion culpability when there is such a long chain of command?

      I suppose to get an idea of where this will go, it might be worth looking at previous disasters. Off the top of my head there is the Herald of Free Enterprise where 193 passengers drowned. There were huge faults in the design of the passenger ferry, but ultimately the blame was placed at the door of the guy who should have closed the bow doors.

      Today, the blame seems to be leaning towards the fridge freezer that caught fire. This seems like a bit of a distraction, because the tragedy lay not in what started the fire but the way in which it spread.

      I wonder if there has ever been a public disaster where government officials have been prosecuted for manslaughter? Not just in the UK, but worldwide including countries run by despots and tyrants? At the moment I can't think of one.

    2. @ Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton23 June 2017 at 20:02

      I don't understand your comment at all or how it is relevant to my post at 16.44.

      My post was just to report on what the Police are considering. Nothing has been decided yet - but you seem to be wanting heads to roll at every level without having any proof at this stage.

    3. From what I have heard and read so far, everyone is trying to find out what happened and Councils and building owners are coming forward to say if their buildings are safe or not and taking action if necessary.

      Why, at this stage, would you want to be persecuting government officials?

    4. "Today, the blame seems to be leaning towards the fridge freezer that caught fire. This seems like a bit of a distraction, because the tragedy lay not in what started the fire but the way in which it spread."

      No distraction. Just stating the facts ma'am.

    5. Totally agree Unknown@20:40. Ros is right to speculate about the speed in which the fire spread, but I have to wonder if it started inside by a faulty fridge, what was done inside the building to accelerate the fire. I'm going to guess exposed gas pipes. What I will say is please let the investigators carry out their forensics and leave the bullshit point scoring to the MSM and politicians of all parties. My thoughts and prayers are with all who have suffered over this tragedy.

    6. I don't know if you saw the Panamora investigation into the Grenfell fire John, but it appears the fridge fire was extinguished. The fire appears to have spread from outside the building. The stairwells were full of smoke, rather than fire.

      Unfortunately 'let the investigators get on with it' and 'show respect for the victims and survivors' will undoubtedly now be used to stop discussion on the Grenfell disaster.

      I'm of the opinion that's the last thing the victims and survivors need. The people who need help need it now - once the news moves on there is a likelihood they will be forgotten.

      This, like the Madeleine case, is something I'm not happy to leave to the MSM and the politicians - because in a nutshell, we know they are lying.

      Are you concerned about the point scoring because the tories are getting hammered John? Because this tragedy is the result of tory greed and government policy that punishes the poor? Who, for example, put a disabled man on the 22nd floor?

      I am sure you do have great sympathy for all who have suffered John, but if they are to get justice, there must be public debate.

    7. Hi Ros, I don't care if TM gets hammered or JC's crocodile tears for that matter either. I lost a good work colleague & friend who lived in the block. She's missing presumed dead along with her son.

    8. I'm very sorry to hear that John, my deepest sympathy to you.

      I watched many of the survivors and community members on VictoriaLive this morning and it was sickening to see that all the resources etc are not reaching them. The overall feeling was they very much wanted to keep the issue topical and for the politicians to be held accountable. It simply isn't possible to make this a non partisan issue - many, myself included, blame austerity.

      Anyway John, despite our political differences, I am truly sorry to hear of your loss.

  25. As I pointed out, a couple of pasts above, there were clear recommendations made by highly qualified people who gave clear reasons why the cladding was dangerous and why it recommended that it shouldn't be used. The cladding can't cause fires but it was made clear that it was A-an accelerant, and B- toxic. There's two reasons why the ignoring of the warnings equate to corporate manslaughter. They gambled that this would never happen and they'd never have to be investigated.Their stake was the lives of innocent tenants, some of whom had also voiced concerns only to be ignored too. Had cutting costs meant less to them than human life, the tragedy wouldn't have happened. They had the power to prevent it but chose not to. The timing of it politically was bad for the Tory crowd. It's brought their callous disregard of the less well off to the fore as they were trying to recover from the quakes sent though them by Jeremy Corbyn's near-miss.

    I hope those who talked the Tories up on here and anywhere else are proud of their champions.The chain of command can be easily traced from local Gov upwards, stair by stair.

    Since Cameron took control of the country in 2010 there are remarkable statistics that cry out to be read by everyone and call for an election to take place sharpish.He may well be gone from the arena but his ideology is alive and well and continues unabated.
    Homelessness stands at 34 % . That's reality whatever that cracked actress from Buckingham Palace lied about in it's speech. 100,000 losing their homes since they got into power. This despite Frau Windsor talking about our globally admired 'British ideals' and 'strong economy' ( I wonder which surviving member of Thatcher's coven composed that speech).

    The statistics tell a story of the new class apartheid here.The tragedy of the tower has proven to be a monument to it.

  26. "An entire estate in north London is being evacuated after a fire inspection in the wake of the Grenfell Tower disaster found the tower blocks were not safe. Temporary accommodation is being sought for about 800 households from five buildings on the Chalcot estate.

    Work to make the blocks safe is expected to take three to four weeks, the leader of Camden council, Labour’s Georgia Gould, said on Friday."

    1. I would be interested to know if these Councils are genuinely concerned for the welfare of the tenants or just being bloody minded 21:03.

      History will show the Grenfell tragedy to be the first and most significant instigator of a huge change in British politics. Jeremy Corbyn is Prime Minister in everything but name. We are in the midst of a Revolution, the one writers, musicians, artists and philosophers have been crying out for, for decades. FFS Give Peace a Chance.

      I know nothing of technology or engineering I have to confess, but couldn't sprinklers be installed immediately with minimal disruption to tenants? And fairly quickly?

      Councils are under scrutiny right now, and quite rightly. How many, like Kensington and Chelsea, accumulated a surplus in their budgets while ignoring their basic obligations to social housing tenants?

  27. Further....

    We need a few more High Court judges like this one...


    'The scale of collusion in case of a self-confessed UVF killer and police informer demonstrates what the British State is trying to hide through a so-called ‘statute of limitations’, Sinn Féin MLA Gerry Kelly has said.

    The North Belfast MLA was reacting to today’s hearing at Belfast Crown Court where UVF ‘supergrass’ Gary Haggarty pleaded guilty to 200 charges, including five murders and five attempted murders. All of the killings, and the majority of the other offences, took place while he was working as a police informer.

    Gerry Kelly said:

    “The scale of collusion in this case is appalling but it is only the latest in a line of high-profile cases which are beginning to expose the extent to which the RUC and British State forces colluded with loyalist death squads throughout the conflict.

    “This man was a senior member of the UVF involved in directing that organisation’s sectarian campaign and by his own admission, was involved in a string of murders all the while acting as a Special Branch informer.

    “He has claimed that his handlers not only protected him from arrest and prosecution, but also actively encouraged his activities.

    “The full extent of Special Branch’s involvement with Haggarty needs to be thoroughly and independently investigated, but there are many within unionism and right-wing Toryism who want cases like this never to come to light.

    “That is the real motivation behind current attempts to establish a so-called statute of limitations which would prevent investigations of past crimes. They don’t fear witch-hunts; they fear the full scale of the British State’s involvement in the murder of Irish citizens being exposed to the wider world.”'

    1. WOW - thank you for posting that 08:41. I don't think the statute of limitations should apply - especially as some of those involved still wield considerable power.

    2. There are of course connections here to Jim Gamble and Dave Edgar, but I cannot say anything further on that because I have had warnings.

      Therefore I am in the strange situation of recommending anyone who wants to know more to go to CMoMM who seem to be speaking about it quite freely.

    3. I not sure of the connection to Dave Edgar but I know your other man is worried

    4. Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton24 June 2017 at 18:23

      "There are of course connections here to Jim Gamble and Dave Edgar, but I cannot say anything further on that because I have had warnings."

      What warnings - for what?

    5. I used the term 'Belfast Mafia' and received Libel threats from Jim Gamble on twitter. I believe he keeps a pretty close eye on everything I say.

    6. @ Rosalinda, Cristobell Hutton25 June 2017 at 09:49

      Oh dear - whatever happened to freedom of speech eh!

  29. Anonymous23 June 2017 at 21:03

    Further to your post, I heard the back end of a news report earlier stating that the count is up to 70 now ( tower blocks that are dangerous). This looks like a very urgent inquiry and reflects the level of fear in certain quarters.

    1. It would not surprise me Ziggy if some Councils are giving a reductio ad absurdum response to the current public outcry - and making the tenants suffer. It's like the are saying 'look, you stupid effing leftards, this is what happens when you follow Health and Safety to the letter'. (.....ergo, the fire at Grenfell was not our fault).

      I fear games are being played Ziggy, and sadly, as usual, it is those at the bottom who are bearing the brunt.

  30. The buck has to stop with bloated Zionist, Eric Pickles.
    His story so far ....

    British Conservative Party politician who was the Member of Parliament for Brentwood and Ongar from the 1992 general election to the 2017 general election and was the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government until May 2015. He was previously the Chairman of the Conservative Party from 2009 to 2010 and is currently the chairman of Conservative Friends of Israel( that latter is the established phrase used rather than '' another Israeli poodle'').

    Brutally ironic, he is currently their ' Special Envoy, and Anti Corruption Champion.' He lost his seat in the election just prior to this tragedy...

    May has gone for the 'public inquiry' route again. That it is her( and her party's) decision renders it a Government -controlled inquiry-emphasis on 'controlled. May has some 'previous' in this area. When she was exercising her incompetence as Home Secretary she called for a public inquiry into paedophilia, in particular, 21 cases. Politicians were implicated( Leon Brittan in particular). She appointed 'retired' Judge , Baroness ( yes, Baroness) Butler-Sloss. Then it was made known that she was the sister of Lord Havers who had banned reporting on the same kind of inquiry in the 1980s to safeguard his Tory friends( impartially, of course). She replaced her with another impartial chair person, Ms Fiona Woolf who was still having occasional lunches with Mr and Mrs Brittan publicly on the run up to the inquiry.So she was removed too. It all bought time...

    It seems an unwritten protocol exists in this grey area. Margaret Hodge was complicit in covering up the same thing in the 1980s in Islington and was caught red-handed.But she's an Oppenheimer(ergo untouchable like Leon Brittan ).Not only was she allowed to remain an MP, but Blair actually created a post just for her-'Minister for Children'. How's that for a one-fingered salute from Blair to the public ? Harriet Harman endorsed PIE and she got to be Deputy Leader. Mr Blair seems to 'favour' a certain type don't you think .But may got the biggest job of them all. It seems cruelty is rewarded if it involves children or the lower classes...

    Back to Pickles. Theresa May has form with him too from 2013.That was when a coroner's report concerning victims of a tower block fire in 2009 ( Lakanal House) was passed to Gavin Barwell.( May's new chief of staff). Among the recommendations was that other tower blocks should be 'retro-fitted' with sprinkler systems.He didn't act on any recommendations. It was the responsibility of Eric Pickles to pass on the recommendations to local councils but, due to their 'austerity programme' and the 'ravaged finances' of local councils, the recommendations were ignored.

    Earlier this week, as May attempted to score some points over the latest tragedy, this case was brought to her attention in the house of commons to which she replied : '' It is my understanding that the coroner's findings didn't suggest that sprinkler systems be fitted''. How can that be her understanding ? It can't be. She lied. A true blue.

    Ian Duncan-Smith, one of Cameron's best psychotic henchmen, who would love nothing more than to see the poor destroyed, suggested tearing down all similar housing projects but offered nothing in the way of an alternative for those who have their roots and memories there. He must know some good building contractors with brown envelopes.

  31. Thank you for that update on the tories Ziggy, just when they couldn't get any cuddlier eh? Eric fattest cat Pickles, not a fan, Ian Duncan-Smith manages to portray himself as the right hand demon of Beelzebub, always on the lookout to inflict hardship and misery.

    But what has happened to Boris? Is he not done with stripping London and the UK of all it's assets? No buyers for his garden bridge or thanks from the NHS for the extra £350m a week he promised them? Sadly for the tories he is their only 'popular' option, he has a distinctive look like Donald Trump, he is clownish, like Donald Trump and he could possibly inspire, hmmm, the Womens Institute to come out and march. His Eton accent, his Bullingdon Boys past and his innate sense of entitlement won't ever appeal to the working classes and the ethnic minorities. He will almost certainly go at the next election, because he only has a 5,000 majority and he will be targeted.

    I have to say, after so many decades of tory savagery (and I include Blair here), I am delighted to watch the Right implode. Austerity has never made sense, just as that Judge said, it is spite and meanness just for the sake of it.

    I have had many err, discussions with the Right, on forums over the years and they have never once convinced me that their greed and selfishness is justified. One argument, from those who don't have children: 'why should I pay for other people's kids?'. A. Because if you are fortunate to get to old age, other people's kids will be running society, paying the taxes needed to keep the economy going, and quite likely providing you with food, medical assistance and personal care.

    IDS is evil personified imo, while others might talk quietly in back room about social engineering and clearing prime locations of social housing tenants, he will carry it out - gleefully. Sadly, I imagine the bids are already in for the site on which the remains of Grenfell Tower stand.


  33. I'm sure we all welcome the statement of intent from Superintendent Fiona McCormack. It would be nice to think that we can trust the Met as an independant body acting in the interest of the public rather than the Home Secretary and Government. Maybe they will this time given the seriousness of the event and it's aftermath. There's a lot of eyes on this one so they might have to clean up their act now.My problem is areas like :

    ''it emerged police had seized documents and materials from a “number of organisations”.

    ( they did that at Jill Dando's flat before she was cold, they did it with Police statements at Hillsborough, they did it with the dossier Leon Brittan had, and we know the McCann case has had it's creative editors)

    ''we are reviewing every company at the moment involved in the building and refurbishment of Grenfell Tower,''

    ( name names)

    Be more specific.It's a 'public' inquiry.What 'documents' and which 'organisations' ? We know that safety tests are going to come up as 'fail'- it's common sense. Reasons for the cost-cutting is where the root of this crime lay.And it is a crime whichever way it gets spun.Anyone who recommended it ( the cladding) as safe rather than 'cheap alternative' has blood on their hands. Any official that knowingly ignored warnings and recommendations should be in the dock soon. When that happens we can call the public inquiry transparent and honest.Not before.

    Regarding Boris Johnson ,the gobshite Bullingham imbecile as you rightly point out, Ros, I've said to people before that it's too easy to but into his contrived caricature of the bumbling toff Englishman. I can understand why they do. It's given him celebrity status. His outlandish insults aimed at the poor or the northerners, his designer messy hair that makes him appear like a giant schoolboy and his 'hoorah Henry' bullshit makes him unforgettable as the lovable silly oaf. But make no mistake, he'd cut your throat as soon as look at you.Remember, he's cut from the same cloth as his Nazi friends and sings from the same hymn sheet. I've noticed they( the Tory BBC) have been pushing his father on us on trendy shows lately. He's Boris but with a few wrinkles.Dickhead.

    I don't know if you ( or regular contributors here) are aware of, or fans of, Richie Allens radio show on youtube. I know I am. I love his stand and his uncompromising questionings of his guests. Here's a link from very recently. It discusses the tower, May, Johnson, Duncan-Smith- the lot. I recommend it highly.

    And here's a shorter film the media daren't release. The people who were there and what they were told by firefighters about who was inside and what they found..

  34. "Sixty towers across England found to have unsafe cladding"
    The Guardian.

    They should use this unique opportunity to replace the cladding with solar panels and non combustible insulation. Funded by the government.

  35. I see the cesspit head hounder has got his facts wrong again in yet another cross forum/twitter war.

    Such fun.

  36. If anyone needs to know why the havern/bennett hellhole is called a cesspit - then look at the topic "Did Madeleine have ADHD?"

    Disgusting that the thread is allowed to continue.

    1. Thank you 15:07 and 15:33 - and big lol, I've just taken a look. I (think) I'm somewhat relieved to have been written out of their pathetic forum wars, I did play a major part in the breakdown of the cesspit, but Candyfloss got the got the pat on the back, doh! Never mind, in years to come I can take pride in the fact that I remained aloof from their murky little world.

      I can't be arsed to do any more than skim read their latest 'he said, she said', shite, but I gather Bennett and Thompson are still fighting over Smithman (like it matters, lol), and they may, or may not, be discussing lawyers. To the lawyers I would say, get out the best china and take the dozy fuckers for everything.

    2. Thank you for your post 15:33. I agree, topics such as 'did Madeleine have ADHD?' would be one of the reasons dwellers of the cesspit are referred to as hounders.

      There are no valid or legitimate reasons to publicly discuss Madeleine's character and behaviour. Apart from the fact that they don't know, the investigation of this case has feck all to do with them. They have been appointed by no-one, they have no experience or expertise, and the purpose of their 'research' is to bring maximum pain to the family.

      I have no doubt Gerry and Kate are involved, but the Good Lord, if there is one, did not put me on this earth to punish them. Bennett with his cesspit, has taken on the roles of the police, judge, jury, hangman and contributor to poorly researched Madeleine documentaries with outlandish plots. I don't what the Good Lord had to do with his chosen role, but Beelzebub might have had a hand in it.

  37. Fora and sexual abuse nonsense aside, where do rumours come from?

    2011 ('madeleine’ © Kate McCann):

    “She screamed straight away (something we’d get used to over the next six months).”

    “Madeleine suffered from colic. She cried for the best part of each day for the first four months of her life. When she had one of her screaming episodes her little fists would clench tightly and her face would turn purple with discomfort.”

    “Quite apart from the colic, Madeleine seemed to have an aversion to sleep at the best of times. It still astonishes us that she could survive on so little.”

    “I would have to feed the twins one at a time when I was on my own, which meant that as I was feeding the first, the other one would not only be getting hungry and grumpy but would also be vulnerable to attack from a big sister needing attention.”


    17 September 2007

    ‘The revelations come as police said they were trawling through Kate's medical records amid suspicions in Portugal that she may have had a history of depression.

    The detailed analysis of her medical notes could provide them with significant evidence against the GP, who is a suspect in the case of Madeleine's disappearance.

    Speaking about Madeleine's upbringing, Kate, a 39-year-old GP, told Portugal's Flash! magazine: "She cried practically for 18 hours a day. I had to permanently carry her around."’


    "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."

  38. havern says: "I would like to thank Verdi for asking for support from our 7,679 members and the four of you who have posted to do just that."

    Too funny for words ROFL

  39. “AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann”

    “Of course we always want information and we can't rule out making new appeals if that is required. However, right now, new appeals or prompts to the public are not in the interest of what we are trying to achieve.


    “Holidaymakers urged to print off and pack Maddie McCann posters when they go abroad in new bid to track down missing youngster”

    “While Kate and Gerry cling onto a glimmer of hope, British police searching for their daughter are winding down their investigation codenamed Operation Grange.

    Scotland Yard are still struggling to solve one last “throw of the dice” clue and are expected to shelve the controversial £12 million inquiry after the summer.”

  40. "Six people including two former senior police officers have been charged with criminal offences relating to the deaths of 96 people at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest at Sheffield Wednesday’s Hillsborough football ground and the alleged police cover-up which followed."

    1. Finally the Hillsborough families will have justice. I have nothing but respect and admiration for them, a terrible tragedy made so much worse by the evil lies of those who have finally been charged.

      I have to say I am surprised to see former senior policers charged - I can't say I remember anything like this before. Seeing those thought to be above the law, facing trial may well bode well for the Madeleine case.

  41. There will be a list of tenants/owner occupiers as rents, council tax, utilities etc. would have to be paid. This list can be checked against the named people who escaped, the difference being the number of potential missing/dead people.
    The lack of ID can be helped by council records, census files, TV licence authorities, DVLA, HMRC, schools, doctors, dentists etc. Nobody expects tenants to flee a fire clutching their documents but neither should we take people at their word or we may find 500 people claiming they lived there.
    Also I, like most people pay for house insurance, let's hope the tenants in this building also invested in this.
    There isn't enough available housing in this area to accommodate all of these people and it can not be conjured up out of thin air so it's pointless to demand that they all be rehoused in this area. Let's have a common sense approach to this tragedy.


    I agree with above in terms of there being records of people in the building. Yes some might slip through the net for whatever reason but most people will have extensive records in terms of housing, utilities, TV licenses, work and school records, medical and more besides.

    I think it's a red herring to suggest a fairly accurate figure cannot be arrived at. Those people who lived there but who were not in the block at the time will, in general, make themselves known to authorities. Those who perished there will, in general, have family and friends/work colleagues/acquaintances who were outside the building who will be desperate to know where they are.

    Yes of course there will be some people who were 'flying under the radar' just as there are anywhere but they will be in a small minority.

    What I think might be an interesting line of enquiry would be to ask about the ownership of the apartments. Were any of the apartments privately owned? If apartments were privately owned how many were occupied by the owners and how many were rented out by absentee landlords?

    Equally, how many of the apartments were owned by the local authority? (I presume the majority? But who knows?) In which case, how many of these local authority apartments were lived in by the council tenants who were renting them and paying rent to the council (whether or not on housing benefits) and how many are being rented by absentee landlords and then being sub-let?

    I feel that within the above might lie some of the answers to the most tricky questions. Which are probably not to do with not knowing who lived there but are probably more to do with knowing who the landlords are and how they were making a fast buck with over-crowded and unsafe housing.

  42. The Grenfell Tower inferno is at least as scandalous as Hillsborough - in fact in my opinion much more so as the tenants had voiced fears and concerns which were entirely justified for years. I also think the death-toll will be even higher tragically (although probably covered-up for as long as possible).

    The advice to 'stay put' in the apartments I am sure had some merit based on the idea that a fire could be contained within an apartment or at least within a floor or two.

    Once the blaze had taken hold, advice to 'leave' apartments would have resulted in a massive crush within the one stair-well of monumental proportions. Say there were 500 or 600 people in that block - imagine hundreds descending a single stairwell at the same time.

    It is understandable that firefighters would want to avoid that kind of crush on the stairwells. But with no way of evacuating people on higher levels and with no way of fire hoses or ladders being able to reach higher floors and no proper system of evacuation from the bedlam...

    Disgusting....all completely avoidable and to do with greed, as you say Ros. All to do with greed and nothing less.

    1. As well as tenants voicing their concerns over the years, football fans had also 'voiced their concerns' over the years about that Hillsborough death-trap, and were obviously ignored!

      It always takes a tragedy before the authorities decide to act.

  43. I wonder, sometimes, about the site that's often called the 'cesspit'. It seems to be Tony Bennett's Fortress, with him at the throne awaiting news from so many minions eager to please this self-made Arthurian legend of the lamentable.

    The 'spats' online are painful to read at the best of times.But when sites like that spill on to Twitter et al and then start whispering( private mails and messages) it begins to conjure up images we all have from our early learning days in the playground.You know the eager little scrum would form and make pacts to ignore an 'outsider' and stick to it.But they lasted five minutes and then another unfortunate 'outsider' would replace the original one-and so on..

    Unfortunately, the people online seem to find it too easy to regress to that time. The cloak of protection that is the internet only adds fuel to their fire and they become addicted to the buzz.And it is a buzz as in physiological.Add to this the worlds most poerful force-the ego- and we have quite a phenomenon on our hands. Real life becomes an inconvenience to these people as the beast gets hungrier the more it's fed. Beyond the '' he said she said'' bullshit, it becomes quite disturbing.Common sense and decency are thrown off like shackles.A new found liberty is celebrated by hurling no end of abuse and threats wherever they like and to whoever they choose for whatever reason they perceive is right.Call them out and the same old dust-covered reply comes back ''it's free speech!''. Free speech is a privilege as well as a right and should be treated as both.It isn't a license to attack either alone or as part of some deluded tribe.Those who use it as such deserved the shackles in the first place.

    I believe that all of it, blogs and social networks, are monitored closely for trolling.I believe that was the case 10 years ago. I believe, since Brown, Blair and those other dictators demanded that online snooping was the new rock and roll, that it was put in place before the ink was dry.It was safely in place before Brenda Leyalnd became a sacrificial lamb.She was hand -picked . She was chosen as an example to others and paid the ultimate price.Before she passed, 'trolling' was all over the MSM due mainly to McCalpine threatening to sue everyone online for exercising their 'free speech'. His actions came at the business end of several allegations( of MPs) about child abuse and cover ups( which we re still learning were true).Much of his anguish before he died was blamed on trolling and it's effect on his health( despite years of medical problems).He died Jan 2014. Brenda died May 2014.

    Sites such as the one in discussion are allowed to abuse and accuse without interruption or closure for one reason . When 'measures' are put in place under the dictatorship, the rationale advanced in it's defence will be to 'protect' us(again).

    1. I agree that many people use the internet and anonymity to release their inner antisocial personalities Ziggy - no where more so than the cesspit.

      Most of those who comment on the McCann case anonymously, do so for good reason. In the beginning especially, when Team McCann were compiling a blacklist of their critics. However, many over the years, have used that anonymity to behave like online thugs. Hiding their names and identities allows them to make all sorts of malicious allegations without fear of criminal or civil proceedings.

      Whilst I agree this is an 'abuse' of Freedom of Speech Ziggy, there is no way to legislate against it, nor should there be. Fortunately, anonymous accusations are worthless - no matter how profound a statement, it won't make headlines without a name attached. That they are largely ignored is probably little consolation for the McCanns, but unless they are prepared to track them down, as they did with Brenda Leyland, there is nothing they can do.

      As I have said many times, Gerry and Kate really need to accept responsibility for themselves. The only control they have over commentary on the internet, is the way in which they react to it. They can choose whether to allow it to affect them, or not.

      The McCanns as we know, have been in battle mode from the start. With Carter Ruck and Jim Gamble behind them, they believed they could 'wipe out' their online critics - a battle they were always going to lose, but hugely profitable for the lawyers.

      As much as I am repulsed by the cesspit, I wouldn't ban it. To be honest, I wouldn't ban anything other than the word 'ban', but I would be delighted to see Bennett, Hall, Petermac, Hyatt et all prosecuted for interfering with the investigation and possibly prejudicing any future trial. I would also like to see all the vile sycophants who support them anonymously, unmasked. It's the least they deserve.

  44. @Anonymous28 June 2017 at 07:34

    “Holidaymakers urged to print off and pack Maddie McCann posters when they go abroad in new bid to track down missing youngster”

    Posters of a 3 year old who would now be 3 years from the legal age to get married.In between is a poster of a fictional generic 13 year old who is the double of the BBC Test card girl as seen on Life On Mars, a drama about being in limbo or, possibly dead, possibly alive.How ironic.How pointless.

    ''Scotland Yard are still struggling to solve one last “throw of the dice” clue and are expected to shelve the controversial £12 million inquiry after the summer.”

    Or coming up with an explanation regarding that last 'throw of money' to hunt down 'one suspect' that comprised the prep story just prior to the anniversary.Nobody believed it then, and now they know why.

  45. Anonymous28 June 2017 at 12:14

    We want Duckenfield first.The rest will be a bonus. Maybe the doubters who cry 'conspiracy theorists !'' will wake the f** up when this is over. David ''worshipful master'' Duckenfield no less.Take note of that title the next time you question the ''mystery' that we call the McCann case. Worshipful master. There's many of them about.Yet another 'network' of filth.


    1. @ Anonymous29 June 2017 at 09:21

      why are you posting links to paedophile activity (denied) by a Cardinal in Australia on this blog?

  47. Interesting that the chief honcho at Kensington and Chelsea has he resigned. It's the least he could do - I know one shouldn't judge by appearances but he could not look more like an ineffectual, slimy public official if he tried.

    On the subject of cheap, overcrowded housing I have been talking to a lot of estate agents recently. There is big money to be made in renting or buying local authority flats and stacking people in. Every room is turned into a bedroom or even dorm leaving just a tiny kitchen area for all the occupants of the flat plus one small bathroom with toilet - again shared by all the occupants of the flat. I have seen some of these places with my own eyes - the word slum springs to mind.

    It's a disgrace as it means unscrupulous landlords are making a fortune out of the ridiculous cost of housing which, in London at any rate, is unaffordable for the average person.

    According to the estate agents I've spoken to the landlords are making loads of money doing just this. I would be amazed if this was not going on in Grenfell Tower and I think that detailed records of rent books etc at Grenfell Tower (which will all of course be in the hands of the council) would be extremely interesting.

    1. Apologies for the delay in replying and thanking you for your post 11:40. I did begin a reply but it turned into a blog I have not yet published.

      Unfortunately, a whitewash has already begun, particularly with the changes being injected into the narrative. Not just Council flats covered in unsafe cladding etc. I wonder if spreading the corruption dilutes it? We shall see.


    That is the most disgusting post.

    1. "She [DCI Nicola Wall] usually has about six or seven live cases at any one time, and prides herself on her investigative speed; she is only partially joking when she attributes her low media profile to the fact "we solve cases so quickly nobody gets involved..."

  49. God Ros - you should buy Andrew a drink and tell him to FO whilst the backslapping "we are so good" posters on MMM salivate over themselves!

  50. It's fascinating that two hater forums believe they have the slightest bit of influence or relevance to a missing child.

  51. Don't people realise that someone who falsely accuses someone as being someone else just waits for all those accused to reveal more information of themselves? Until they have enough information to identify them?

    1. Many thanks for those comments (above 3), I was trying to stay aloof by ignoring it all, but one of my replies turned into a blog. Unfortunately, this topic brings out the mischief in me, I don't need to get into costly or tedious litigation with Bennett, I can squish him with a few lines!